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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Charging

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NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/30/2009 : 13:33:19

Well, this may be dumb to ask as you may not know the answer due to possible variations in setups.
I've been out on my newly purchased boat about 6 times now. It's hard for me to do any kind of maintenance and "exploring" of what I have in it because the family just wants to "get going!" Luckily I haven't needed the lighting system yet. If so, I'll definately need to figure out the charging system.

I glanced under the rear cushions to find I have two batteries, and there's an external plug in the coaming for what the PO called a trickle charger.
The marina I'm in turns on the power at night time, so I haven't been able to sit there and wait to see if it's charging. I guess I'll know when I go back right?

I just plugged it in yesterday and plan to go back this weekend.
My question is, is there any kind of switch I should have hit, or is it just plug n play?

I don't know anything about electronics and such. I was wondering what the reverse a/c polarity switch is for?
If I'm plugged into shore power, do I need to hit any of the switches to get the a/c outlets to work?

1989 C-25 TR/WK #5894
Miss Behavin'
Sittin' in LCYC on Canyon Lake, Texas

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2009 : 15:38:21

You might have to clarify the "Plug in the coaming" part. Are you referring to the shore power inlet? A photo would help. Next, To have a trickle charger you would actually have to have one. Have you seen one anywhere on the boat? As for the AC switch, This has to be in the ON position to have power at the two AC outlets when you are plugged into shore power. The little light under the switch should always stay out. It will only light up if you have a reverse polarity situation with the shore power your boat is connected to.

Edited by - islander on 11/30/2009 15:42:31

Tom Gauntt
Navigator

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204 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2009 : 15:41:02

Nauti,

Hard to know without seeing your setup, but it looks like you have the factory DC and AC installed as well as an Accessory panel that was added later. The white electrical panel is the factory DC distribution panel for running things from the battery bank.. basically all the lights and one accessory circuit. The panel to the left looks like an addition added later and it is used to control various things like your VHF or stereo or GPS or cabin fans. The single switch to the right is your Master AC switch. The little yellow light to the bottom is a reverse polarity warning light. Think of the two big panels as controlling the power from the battery(ies) to various things on the boat. The single AC switch basically turns the shore power off or on on the boat. The "reverse polarity" warning light is especially important on a boat. The light should always be off. Although uncommon these days (in the US especially), if it illuminates, you have a serious safety issue. Here's a good link describing polarity: http://www.boatus.com/boattech/TipReversePolarity.htm

>>>My question is, is there any kind of switch I should have hit, or is it just plug n play? I don't know anything about electronics and such. I was wondering what the reverse a/c polarity switch is for?

If I'm plugged into shore power, do I need to hit any of the switches to get the a/c outlets to work?<<<

Hard to know without seeing how your boat might have been changed. My guess is, your AC system hasn't been changed. Probably all you need to do is plug in shore power and then flip the AC switch to on. The battery charger is most likely already wired into the AC system.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3462 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2009 : 16:35:59

The external plug is probably where you hook up your shore line for AC power. If the PO installed a trickle charger, he then probably has it hard wired into the AC and it goes on automatically when the shore line is hooked up. When I hooked up my charger, I wired it to the AC behind one of the AC outlets. The leads do not show unless you take the outlet apart. But my charger is visible because I mounted it next to the 12 volt switch panel. My DC wires from the charger go directly to each of my batteries. If you do have a trickle charger installed, a good place to start to look for it is to see where the leads directly off the batteries...where they go. It is possible they just go to the battery switch or the switch panel but the PO may have wired the charger DC wires directly to the batteries.

Edited by - OLarryR on 11/30/2009 16:38:28

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2009 : 18:01:29

I have a 12 volt trickle charger from West marine that simply plugs into a 12 Volt DC cigarette lighter plug. The trickle charger has a 1 or 2 amp switch (I usually leave on 1 amp). You plug one end of the charger into your AC and the other end into the cigarette lighter plug. Its really simple and in my opinion, that's all that's needed on a C25. I charge my batteries once a month if they need it or not, but then my outboard charges the batteries and I use the boat often. I have 2 group 24 wet cells under the quarter berth.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2009 : 20:43:59

Most likely, you do not have an on/off switch for the AC power, only the polarity switch; if you are plugged in to the shore power, you are on.

Edited by - on

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2009 : 05:59:16

Thanks for the response.

I thought I may have seen the charger behind the manual bilge pump to catch the A/C line right after the plug in the coaming, but I could be mistaken since it's kind of an exterior location.

So you think it may either be automatically charging once plugged in to shore power.....or it needs to be switched on by the A/C switch if the charger is wired after that switch?

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2009 : 09:37:06

For a few good reasons it would be best for you to trace the wiring and confirm how the charger and any other wiring is connected. One, you should do at least an annual inspection of all your connections to verify they have not corroded or loosened (a major cause of onboard fires.) Second, if you discover smoke coming from inside your boat your unfamiliarity with the system will delay your ability to react. As you do your inspection of the connectors you can draw out the wiring layout (schematic) and keep it aboard for reference. The "Post 1988 Manual" in the "Manual & Brochures" section has drawings of the wiring in your boat. It will not show the charger as that is an after market addition. Access to a digital VOM (Volt/Ohm Meter) will be a great help and is an excellent addition to your onboard toolbox. Christmas is just around the corner.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3462 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2009 : 10:18:32

The others will have to chime in on this if I have this wrong but I believe the AC switch you are talking about that is on the panel with the reverse polarity indicator is a circuit breaker and is generally used only as a circuit breaker. However, the DC switch panel that originally came at least with the older boats had one fuse/circuit breaker for the whole panel, so the DC switches are just switches. These days, they sell DC switch panels where each switch is both the switch and the circuit breaker (if you get the more expensive DC switch panels that are furnished that way - My website has both my old and new switch panels shown on it. The new switch panel - each switch is the circuit breaker. Those switches on a panel that has the switch and breaker combined are normally left in the off position and you switch them on when needed. But the AC circuit breaker, I generally never touch that, so I consider the AC always on...well when the shore power line is plugged into the receptacle in the coaming. So...when you state whether you have to switch on the AC, my thought is most sailors don't because the AC is on ....the circuit breaker is in the on position by default.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2009 : 15:54:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">But the AC circuit breaker, I generally never touch that, so I consider the AC always on...well when the shore power line is plugged into the receptacle in the coaming.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I was shown by a marine electrician to properly plug you boat to shore power was to have both the switch/breaker on the dock and the switch/breaker in the boat off. Plug your cable into the boat then turn on the power at the dock then in the boat. This method is for safety. 1- You will never drop a live power cord in the water. 2- You will prevent arcing in the plug (The crackling noise) If you take a powered up cable and put it into the AC inlet on the coaming. This will pit and burn the terminals/prongs in the plug. 3- Turn the switch/ breaker on in the boat. This will ensure that the switch/breaker is working properly and that all connections are good. The switch/breaker can corrode/freeze in the on position if never or rarely flipped leaving you with a system that has a breaker that wont trip. Not a good thing.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2009 : 22:28:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by islander
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">But the AC circuit breaker, I generally never touch that, so I consider the AC always on...well when the shore power line is plugged into the receptacle in the coaming.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I was shown by a marine electrician to properly plug you boat to shore power was to have both the switch/breaker on the dock and the switch/breaker in the boat off. Plug your cable into the boat then turn on the power at the dock then in the boat. This method is for safety. 1- You will never drop a live power cord in the water. 2- You will prevent arcing in the plug (The crackling noise) If you take a powered up cable and put it into the AC inlet on the coaming. This will pit and burn the terminals/prongs in the plug. 3- Turn the switch/ breaker on in the boat. This will ensure that the switch/breaker is working properly and that all connections are good. The switch/breaker can corrode/freeze in the on position if never or rarely flipped leaving you with a system that has a breaker that wont trip. Not a good thing.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I've heard the same thing and have always followed this procedure when hooking up the shore power.

To add one other tidbit, for safety's sake you should always follow the procedure above so that you can see if you have reverse polarity (yellow light on the panel) before you flip the power on in the boat.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5369 Posts

Response Posted - 12/04/2009 : 20:42:07

I'd have to agree on the statements about connecting AC power -- you can never be too careful with 110VAC, it is lethal, and 30A at 120V can create over 3000W. That's a whole lot of heat which can burn ferociously and instanteously.

On your question about the trickle charger being turned on always, and by default. You could disconnect your battery cables before plugging in, and measure your battery voltage. It should be about 12.6 to 12.8V when fully charged up. If somewhat discharged, you may read between 12.0 and 12.5V.

If you measure the battery terminal voltage when the battery charger is connected and charging, you will nominally measure 13.2 to 13.4 under trickle charge, and as high as 14.4 volts when charging heavily.

As well, if you have the AC voltage turned on, when you reconnect the battery cables to the battery terminals, you will notice a little spark between the cable and the terminal when you hook them up.

If your battery charger is always charging your battery whenever the AC power is connected, this is generally a good thing, however, it could also be a bad thing too. If your battery charger is a single step (it just charges), then you can overcharge the battery and start to boil off the electrolyte (battery acid). This can quickly destroy your battery.

If it is a two stage charger, it will charge heavily when the battery is low, but as it completes charging, the charger reverts to trickle charge and cuts the voltage. This prevents boilout.

With a three stage charger, it measures the amount of charge that needs to be replaced in the battery and provides the right amount of charging for the stage. If this type is constantly connected, it will keep your battery fully charged, but will not overcharge it.

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2009 : 12:45:12

A good resource for battery management is Ample Power and you can download their Ample Power Primer from the tech tab here: www.amplepower.com

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2010 : 12:43:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 With a three stage charger, it measures the amount of charge that needs to be replaced in the battery and provides the right amount of charging for the stage. If this type is constantly connected, it will keep your battery fully charged, but will not overcharge it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Excellent explanation. Can anyone offer a good brand name?

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5369 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2010 : 15:59:23

Guest is a well known brand name, Pro-Marine is sold by Bass Pro Shops and Amazon, Marinco is very popular and sold by Defender as is Xantrex. I don't have one on Passage so I have no first hand experience, as I only use the solar panels and the engine to recharge the battery. I'm sure there are lots of others who have preferences and stories.

Edited by - Voyager on 11/10/2010 16:00:18

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2010 : 19:14:37

Many old posts if a search is done as well.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2010 : 21:40:35

I have a little portable 3-stage Guest for maintaining my batteries over the winter. I switch it from one battery to the other every few weeks. Evidence of its effectiveness is that I have never had to add water to any of the batteries, including the one that came to me in Passage during the seven years I owned her. It's a good sign of battery health.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 11/10/2010 21:50:05

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 11/11/2010 : 12:05:02

Thanks everyone - looks like Guest is the real deal . . .

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 11/19/2010 : 19:33:29

I called Guest and the tech told me they don't sell a charger to supply dock side power. They are only for charging batteries. I suggest you call Guest on the phone and talk over with them what your plans are so they can give you the best for what you want to do.
Dan

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 11/19/2010 : 21:51:42

I've gpt a Xantrex that charges both of my batteries at the same time and I can run the boats dockside power system while charging.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2010 : 06:47:51

What Gary B Said, but I'm not altogether thrilled with our setup.

I find it interesting that based on the pics in this post there are at least two different locations for the power panel. In our boat (1984) the panel is behind the galley. In larry's boat (1989) it looks like the panel is under the ladder.

I wonder why catalins didn't locate it on the front of thesetteee the batteries are housed in. Huh.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3462 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2010 : 09:50:16

Under the ladder is a terrible location and....behind the sink area/counter is perhaps better. However, I singlehanded sail most times and even with my spouse and others, if needing to put on the nav lights or the steaming lights when the sun goes down, it's a bit of an inconvenience definitely for the panel located under the ladder. That's one reason why i moved a bunch of circuits onto a new panel I installed in front of the sink. In that location, I do not have to leave the cockpit to gain access to the panel and turn on the lights. (The AC breaker remains under the ladder.)

Edited by - OLarryR on 11/20/2010 09:52:17

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