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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Weekend delivery on 70 foot race boat

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/12/2010 : 18:05:01

I answered an ad on another forum about crewing for Long Beach to Cabo and this past weekend I was invited to go up to Long Beach to deliver a 70 foot race boat down (with a crew of 9) to its new home in San Diego, right next to the owner's current 50 footer.

Friday night I met the owner and crew boss and we drove up there in a rented van. First thing I found out is that the 1995 boat was just purchased and this is the first time the new owner has ever been aboard. Its the first time sailing the boat. It was surveyed in the slip but no sea trial.

So after stowing our things on this amazing racing machine (fixed keel, no water ballast but otherwise top of the line) we are hungry and all go out to dinner. First strange thing after everyone ate and had 1 drink the owner said dinner was on us and got up and left. This is stickting the bill on me and a bunch of 20 year olds. It was an El Torito and each of us had a plate about $10.

The next day we got up and started rigging the boat. It had not been sailed in a year. The owner would only put 15 gallons of diesel on board (a 90 mile delivery). After an hour or two we started motoring. Being the first sail in a year, there were a lot of things not working. The autopilot was broke, cold plates in the refridgerator not working, water maker not working. Normal things but you think they would have taken a sea trial before buying. Electronics were not working right, but I think they got them sorted out after 12 hours at sea.

There was no wind. After about 5 hours of motoring me and one of the other guys dipped the fuel tank and computed that we would not make it. We were burning 2 gallons per hour and did not have enough fuel to motor all the way. The owner said "no, we burn 1.5 gallons per hour". I suggested we divert to Oceanside for fuel - at that time about 3 miles away. We didn't. One good thing I got to drive for about 4 hours.

About sunset we put up all the sails. The main was a piece of crap - badly delaminated. The owner said that would cost $25K to replace. There were 6 code sails - Code 0 (two) and code 1 through 4. We flew them all and the owner had an expert from North on board this guy said they all were too large and needed to be cut down. Sailing the boat with the Code 0 up in 6 knots of breeze was a hoot. The boat heeled over and moved fast - just not towards San Diego. We bagged them all and dropped the mast. Boat can't sail deep and there are no spins or asyms on board. Carbon fiber spin pole and running struts were rigged, but not used.

About dark we were off Mission Bay. I told the owner we could not go to Pt. Loma directly, we had to go to the buoy SD1, then go really far south into the main shipping channel to miss kelp. We didn't, the helmsman at the time turned too soon and we got really tangled in the extensive kelp beds.

About the time we got out of the kelp we ran out of fuel. We were in the main shipping channel with no motor and no sails up. The crew quickly got a blade jib up and the owner told us to sail in to the Harbor Police dock, 5 miles directly upwind with a 3 knot ebb current and wind about 3 knots. There were 2 cruise ships coming out and a tug going in. We avoided collision. Bow lights were not working, and the steaming light on my boat is brighter. We had a guy on the bow with a flashlight.

The boat just would not sail to windward under jib alone. I suggested we get up the main. Afer all we had a crew of 9 sitting around. The owner said no and went below. He put another guy on the helm and told me to make sure he didn't hit anything. I got a depth finder to display. None of them had ever sailed into San Diego Bay at night. I have about 100 times.

After about 30 minutes and many 180 degree tacks we were not 1 foot closer to getting in the bay. I talked to the owner and suggested we call Vessel Assist. He said he only had the $15 membership (only pays $50). So we called with my card. We arranged for a fuel delivery.

About that time friends of mine came by on a 43 footer. A big local race was finishing. After getting the owner's permission, I called to them and we got a tow. I called back Vessel Assist and canceled. I basically took command of the tow and getting us docked. The crew were all 20 year old bowmen with no real knowledge of boats, tows, spring lines, etc. We had only 2 fenders and a couple of 20 foot docklines.

We got towed to the Harbor Police dock and his wife was there with a 5 gallon can of diesel. We filled the tank and I helped bleed the engine. We got her started and motored to his 100 foot slip.

Everyone left. I stayed and had a drink with the owner. I said I'd like to do the race. He told me he thought all the race spots were filled, but what would it take for me to agree to do the delivery back? I gave my terms (pretty steep).

All in all I was pretty blown away by this day. Walking up to the car with the crew boss he said that they didn't really have anyone on board with general knowledge about boats, and that I could be useful to the crew.

Indiscipline 1978 FK SR #398

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 01/12/2010 : 19:11:01

Geez - seems the owner was pretty lax - and cheap - about the details...any concerns about safety...were there proper PDFs, jack lines, flairs, etc??

Edited by - jerlim on 01/12/2010 19:11:38

KiteKraemer
Navigator

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191 Posts

Response Posted - 01/12/2010 : 19:15:41

Geez what a schmuck. Good thing you were around; that is.
A rich dufus I presume? Sorry about that he didn't acknowledge
your experience right away-- I sure would have.

I'll have to check out SD1 and that kelp bed for next time
I roll in after dark!

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/12/2010 : 19:52:44

...and you guys complain about us $+!nkp*++ers!

This sounds like one of those guys who thinks accepting advice is a sign of weakness. Jim, I'm amazed you had any terms...

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 01/12/2010 : 21:29:56

I really just can't believe the whole thing.

I don't think there was any safety equipment on board.

The total disdain for the boat, crew, ....

Its just a toy for the Cabo race and nothing else I guess.

The guy is from Chicago and went home right after the delivery. Its mostly a Chicago crew for the race.

They want some local people to work on the boat.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 01/12/2010 : 22:22:55

Get your pay up front!

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 01/12/2010 : 23:23:57

Are you really considering crewing for this owner? I crewed on a racing yacht with a mixed crew and being the oldest had the youngest yelling me to go faster. The winches were 12 inches across and crank handles had 2 handholds. The 7/8 sheet could be strummed and when the spinnaker turning block broke the owner's son said I was going to pay for it. Hummm.

Edited by - on

danandlu
Navigator

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USA
175 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2010 : 07:16:25

What starts bad ends bad. Seems to me you had an "experience", got home safe anyway.

I'd walk away from this guy.

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2010 : 07:16:50

From what you've said Jim this guy just gives me a bad feeling, I wouldn't do squat for him regardless of price.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2010 : 08:16:29

Too many dollars and not enough sense.

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2010 : 08:27:54

If he's from out of town and doesn't listen to your local wisdom this is a bad sign indeed. Crewing on a race horse like this would be fun but it sounds like the guy is a turkey turd. Maybe give it one more shot on a small local race, test the waters again and I'd be very upfront with your concerns with him, if he doesn't respond right, simply walk away.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2010 : 09:56:26

Quite a poor showing by that owner!

Did the hull have some nice kind of colorful name or decorations, at least? Was the boat called - "Come Hell or High Water"???

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2010 : 11:34:52

I guess I was expecting a super high level of professional seamanship on board such a vessel. Instead I found an owner who beats the crew and boat like a rented mule.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2010 : 11:42:35

His name wasn't Larry Ellison, was it?

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2010 : 12:36:50

Just curious, what were your terms to him? He seems like an ass, I'd be disinclined to crew on his boat or help him in any way.

I've been fortunate to crew on boats where the skippers go out of their way for crew comfort, safety, encouragement, etc. One skipper would always provide lunch and drinks for every race. If we won, we'd get dinner at a very nice restaurant where we'd get funny looks for showing up in foulies. Whether we won or not we'd get a "ration of grog" served up by either the skipper or his son on the way back in. Other skippers I've crewed for were less generous, but I've never sailed with someone with this level of disdain for his boat, crew, local knowledge, etc. Were I you, I'd simply walk away.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2010 : 14:56:29

Jim, I know you love to help the underdog but this guy reeks trouble. Walk away!
Steve A

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2010 : 14:59:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimB517
 . . . I found an owner who beats the crew and boat like a rented mule.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I once saw a bumper sticker on the transom of a boat "Have you flogged your crew today?"

Edited by - on

Admin
Forum Admin

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460 Posts

Response Posted - 01/14/2010 : 06:28:03

Am I the only one that sees the irony in this?

The skipper wanted the boat to tie up at the Police Dock.

Are you sure the skipper was not OJ?

Paul

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 01/14/2010 : 11:19:28

Even if we assume the owner was correct in his claim that the boat uses 1.5 gal per hour, and, if we assume that a 70 ft. racing boat will average about 8 kts under power (which might be a little high for a cruising speed), it would take the boat about 12 hours to get there. That means it would take at least 18 gals. to get there, and that assumes no other unfavorable conditions, such as having the wind and waves on the nose, or time lost running through a kelp field. By the owner's own figures, there wasn't enough fuel. He apparently didn't even do the math using his own incorrect figures.

I would have walked away at the dock, when I learned he only planned to take 15 gallons for a 90 mile trip. He took along just enough fuel to take all those eager young guys out to sea and into harm's way, but not enough to get them back.

I was helping take a boat from the Chesapeake Bay to Michigan via the Erie canal a couple years ago, and got off the boat at Cape May, NJ, after I lost confidence in the boat, as well as the owner. I knew the trip was going to end badly because of the owner's bad judgment, and it did end badly a few days later, when the engine died terminally on the Hudson River. It could have been worse.

On a boat, the "skipper" is in command, and you have to follow his orders. If you don't have confidence that he has the skill or judgment to keep you and the boat safe, then the best choice is to walk away.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 01/14/2010 : 13:23:28

The Harbor Police Dock is just at the entrance to Shelter Island (where all the slips are) and has about a 100 foot dock where people clear into the country from Mexico, and has a pump out. This was a very good choice for docking while under tow (or sail).

The boat was making about 8.4 knots under power, but they had it floored the whole time and there was a lot of black smoke because I think it was a little over propped.

On a normal day you could have assumed that you would sail for at least a few hours. However the forecast was for light winds dead aft and big waves. I was apparantly the only person who had checked the weather. I would always, at least, put on enough fuel for motoring the whole way plus a reserve.

When I do a long ocean race like San Diego - Ensenada in my boat I usually carry enough fuel to motor all the way, one way, plus a 3 gallon emergency reserve.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 01/14/2010 : 17:28:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimB517
 I really just can't believe the whole thing . . . The total disdain for the boat, crew, ....
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This sounds exactly like the company I am currently consulting for!!!

Edited by - OJ on 01/14/2010 17:29:07

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2010 : 11:11:38

More owners than Captains. Not surprised though given the fact that any yahoo with a checkbook can wrestle with a dream sans common sense. Hope that guy stays over on that side.

sten
SV Lysistrata - C&C 39
DPO Zephyr - '82 SR FK #3220

Currently heading to West Palm FL
N 27.06.097
W 080.06.404

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