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Jack Schafer
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USA
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Initially Posted - 03/04/2010 : 20:20:32

I need some advice about sailing Chesapeake Bay. I am an inland lake sailor and am going to help my son move his Beneteau 35 from Deltaville,Va. to Deale,MD. it is about 100 miles. We have planned for a 2 1/2 day trip. My concerns are prevailing winds, Temperature,sailing conditions and anything else that may help. We are planning to do this the weekend of March 27 I am experienced with my 250(15 years) have sailed Greatlakes. Any info would be greatly appreciated

Jack Schafer, previous owner of 2ndWind 250WB #106,

2nd Wind

Edited by - on

Voyager
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Response Posted - 03/04/2010 : 23:16:20

Will you be passing through the D&C canal? That's a whole 'nother story.

On thing they say about the Chesepeake is that it is very shallow. That provides at least three hazards.

1. Touching bottom - so you need to have good charts, a reliable GPS and to program your waypoints to remain in deep water, or to navigate the channel through shallow areas into and out of the ports.

To get an idea, take a look at NOAA's on line chart viewer
http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/AtlanticCoastViewerTable.shtml
Don't rely on crappy printouts of these charts. Buy good, up to date charts.

2. Understanding tides - there are no tides in the Great Lakes.
Understanding the effects of the tides, from diurnal tidal variations, to monthly variations, as they move around a lot is critical. During the days of your trip, figure out when the low tides will be, and understand that low tides are measured against Mean Low Low water. If you see a low tide on your date at 0.3, that means low tide will be 0.3 feet above the average low tide in the area. If you see -0.3, then low tide is a third of a foot below the charted depth.

Also note when the high tides will be, so you may be able to pass a certain spot on a high, but not on a low.

If you have a depth finder on the boat, use a lead line to determine its actual reading and any offset. Generally you will find that depth finders underestimate depth.

Another factor is current. Currents of 2kts or more can seriously affect your speed over ground, and can significantly assist or retard your progress. It is good to time your trip to coincide with favorable currents, and to anchor for lunch during an opposing tide.

I generally check NOAA's tides and currents for readings. In order to find the current reference points, you must study the charts carefully. http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/currents10/

3. Chop - strong currents that oppose the wind can create very strong chop. Chop is steep, short wavelength waves that can crest and break, and send cold spray all over you and the boat. It is good to review the National Weather Service's Digital Weather prediction (or other wind predictions) a few days before your trip to predict wind speed and direction. For example, if between 10 and 2 pm you expect to have a strong flood current flowing north (approx 330 to 30 degrees) and strong northerly winds, you will get some fierce chop. It will make sailing unpleasant, and will impede your progress. If however, the winds persist, but the current ebbs south after 4pm, you're golden. This means that wind and current flow the same way = no chop.

Last comment: there are huge ships, including military vessels in the Chesepeake. You must keep clear of them. Keep your ear on channel 16 religiously to hear of any ship movements that you must look out for.

Other than that, it sounds like it should be a great trip!

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
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Response Posted - 03/05/2010 : 03:15:59

First, it can still be cold on the Bay in late March, especially at night, so bring a good sleeping bag, and warm, layerable clothes.

I don't think of the main body of the Bay as having much shallow area, except near the edges. Generally, I'd run in the deep, commercial shipping channel with the tidal current, and then, when the tide turns against you, move out of the commercial channel, into shallower water, where the current will be less. Obviously, you need to pay attention to the commercial traffic, but they aren't difficult to avoid.

I make a lot of 30-40 mile passages during the summer, to get to and from racing venues on the Bay, and I usually plan on motorsailing (motoring to windward with the assistance of the mainsail). If the wind direction is favorable, you can make better time sailing, but it seems to be an unofficial rule that, whenever you must go in a certain direction, the wind will always be on the nose. If the wind is coming out of the east or west, you might consider keeping as close to the windward shore as the depths permit. You’ll find smaller waves there, and a more comfortable ride.

It looks like you might want to find an anchorage inside the Potomac River the first night. I have only been there once, and can’t suggest one. But it shouldn’t be difficult to find a windward shore to provide a little protection for a night.

The next night, you could anchor inside the Patuxent River, but I’d suggest you consider stopping at my marina, Flag Harbor Yacht Haven. When making a passage, you can spend a lot of time getting into and out of an anchorage. Flag Harbor is on the west side of the Bay, north of the Patuxent River. (It's about 5 miles north of the nuclear power plant.) If you’re in the area, it would be a convenient place to stop for the night, because you only have to go about a hundred yards from a slip in the marina to the main body of the Bay. It doesn't ordinarily serve transient yachts, but the operator, John Little, can usually find a space for a night, if you call him in advance and tell him when you're coming. I don't know what he charges, but would expect it to be in the $30-40 dollar range for a 35' yacht. It’s a small condominium marina and doesn’t have a restaurant, so bring whatever food and provisions you need. Google “Flag Harbor Yacht Haven” for the phone number. If you stop at Flag Harbor, you’ll be a little closer to Deale, making it easier to get there in your last half day.

Ordinarily, 2 ½ days should be enough time to cover 100 miles, but I’m sure you realize that, if the weather is unfavorable, you might not be able to make it in 2 ½ days. In the spring, it isn’t unusual to have 2 consecutive days of boisterous weather, making it hard going for small boat

As you cross the mouth of the Patuxent River, you should be aware that there is a huge liquid natural gas terminal just north of the mouth of the river, where big LNG transport ships dock and unload their cargo. The gas is pumped through underwater pipes to some big tanks onshore. The coast guard is very concerned about a potential terrorist attack on the terminal, and has placed white buoys at the four corners of the facility, and they prohibit boaters from coming within 400 yards of it. Stay well clear of it. As of about 3 years ago, it was possible to pass between it and the western shore, but I suggest you not try. It's hard to judge distances, and if you get too close, you are likely to be boarded by the coasties for a safety inspection and a**-chewing.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 03/05/2010 06:16:31

Even Chance
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Response Posted - 03/05/2010 : 07:49:47

As someone who actually sails in the Chesapeake, and who has made that trip (and beyond). . .

Yes, it can be cold, so be prepared.

The Bay is relatively shallow, meaning that in the middle it may be only 60 - 80 feet deep. Get some decent Bay charts -- there's a three set folding series that will be just fine for you. It's the creeks (local name for rivers elsewhere) that have tricky channels. Follow the markers. And you don't need to go all the way out to the main shipping channel in the Bay to be perfectly safe from grounding. I'd stay out of the shipping channel, so you don't get run over.

There probably will not be prevailing winds in March: they'll vary from NW to SW, but because the weather is fluky this time of year, they could be anywhere. If the winds are northerly, they can set up a long fetch in the Bay that will make your trip pretty uncomfortable. However, there are lots of places to duck in to port.

Crossing the Potomac can get rough if wind and tide are opposed.

Tidal range in the Chesapeake is only about 2 feet.

On the Maryland side of the Potomac not far upriver is Lookout Point Marina, in Smith Creek. Great restaurant, and a motel within walking distance.

Lots of places to dock, eat, and stay at Solomon's Island in the Pautuxent.

Steve's right about the LNG terminal, and there are some Navy targets north of that. Follow your charts.

D&C Canal is pretty funny (unless you're a woman) -- it's the C&D canal, and you'd have to be 100 miles off course to go through there.

Edited by - Even Chance on 03/05/2010 07:56:18

Dave Bristle
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Response Posted - 03/05/2010 : 08:50:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Even Chance
 D&C Canal is pretty funny (unless you're a woman)...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Damn--you beat me!

One word about commercial shipping (anywhere--for lake sailors who haven't experienced it)... Those big guys can close on you way faster than it looks like they will--especially from astern. And in the Chesapeake, they have limits to how they can maneuver--so in general, they don't. If you're around the shipping channel and see one in the distance, start your evasive action promptly. You might be surprised at how soon they're going right by where you used to be!

And remember--every 2-3 minutes, do a 360 scan. It's very easy to get fixated on sail trim and course and forget to look around.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 03/05/2010 08:54:05

Steve Milby
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Response Posted - 03/05/2010 : 10:12:32

The way I avoid problems with commercial carriers is to stay on one side of the commercial channel, and generally run the line from marker buoy-to-marker buoy. If a big ship comes along and is going to pass close by, I'll move farther outside the channel. The big carriers stay away from the edges of the channel, which, in effect, leaves small boats with a lane where they can travel safely. If I feel a need to go even farther outside the main channel, the depths on either side of the channel are almost always plenty deep for small boats. Although I have occasionally had big ships pass fairly close by, I've never had a problem with their wake. I usually turn the boat, reduce my speed, and let it roll under me bow-first at an angle, similar to the way you steer over big waves when sailing to windward in big, choppy waves. The wake of big ships on the Bay isn't as bad as you might think. The wakes that I dread are caused by 40-50' Sea Rays running at speeds that are less than enough to get them up on a plane.

By running along the side of the deep-water channel, I get the benefit of a favorable tidal current, while staying out of the way of the big boys. If there's not a favorable tidal current, I stay away from the deep-water channel. There's no other good reason for small boats to be there, unless you have to go that direction to get to your destination.

The targets that Brooke mentioned are just south of the Patuxent River, off-shore from the Pax River Naval Air Stration. In daylight and fair weather, they're not a problem, but they're not lighted at night and have no visible or audible warning signals at night or in bad weather. They're marked on charts, and you just have to know they're there.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 03/05/2010 10:25:33

JohnP
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Response Posted - 03/05/2010 : 10:54:28

Your son may already have a cruising guide to the Bay, but you obviously do not. So below is a link to one for you to peruse. It's published in 2003, and answers all your questions. Of course, there are newer guides, including a 2010 edition I think I'll pick up this year.

[url="http://books.google.com/books?id=2AA3z7rFrzUC&dq=chesapeake+bay+cruising+guide&printsec=frontcover&source=in&hl=en&ei=BR2RS_r1IcqulAes3dH7AQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=14&ved=0CEEQ6AEwDQ#v=onepage&q=chesapeake%20bay%20cruising%20guide&f=false"]This book[/url] has been free online for a while now - "Cruising the Chesapeake: A Gunkholer's Guide".

In the cruising guide there is a photo of Steve's Flag Harbor Marina on p. 251. The western shore you will pass has rivers and small creeks with some accessible anchorages and marinas, but they are hard to happen upon, so I would follow Steve's and Brooke's advice. Other parts of the Bay have many such creeks for gunkholers.

One interesting item to avoid in many parts of the Bay are "pound nets" that are used to trap fish in shallow water. They look like a few dozen sticks standing up out of the water. They are described with a picture and a schematic on pages 52-53 of the cruising guide. They are easy to avoid.

Hazards to navigation on the Bay are described on pp. 18-24.

Since the Bay is 10 miles wide or more, you can cruise in any direction no matter which way the wind blows. I often cross the shipping lane, but I'm always on watch for commercial ships. Daytime is easier, but there are few tricky shoals or rocks, and night-time passages are also straightforward if you're careful. You must have experience with commercial traffic from your Great Lakes sailing.

You can see online charts for parts of the Bay you will be traversing:
[url="http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/AtlanticCoastViewerTable.shtml"]NOAA onlline chart viewer[/url]

...including Deltaville on the Rapahannock River up to the Potomac River
Chart 12225 - Chesapeake Bay - Wolf Trap to Smith Point

...from the Potomac River to the Patuxent River
Chart 12230 - Chesapeake Bay - Smith Point to Cove Point

...from north of the Patuxent River to Deale, north of Herring Bay:
Chart 12263 - Chesapeake Bay - Cove Point to Sandy Point
(I tried to use links, but they don't seem to work to that url)

The LNG plant is located on Cove Point and the underwater LNG pipes are marked as zigzags on the chart.

I sail out of Mill Creek off the Magothy River, which is on the western shore north of Annapolis. I have sailed in the northern one-third of the Bay down to the eastern shore across from Deale, which is on the western shore. Your passage extends across the central one-third of the Bay.

I'm counting on beautiful, warm days at the end of March so I can go sailing after this long winter. However, you should plan for bitter cold, wet weather with nor'easters, like Steve and Brooke suggested, and then you're likely to have unseasonably warm, balmy days with steady west winds and glorious sunsets.

Is your son also an experienced sailor, and does he know these waters? Are the rigging and diesel in good shape?

By the way, advice on how to properly dismantle a blue crab is given on p. 47. Bon appetit!

Edited by - JohnP on 03/05/2010 13:02:01

Even Chance
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Response Posted - 03/05/2010 : 12:02:57

Thanks for the corrective, Steve -- it's been a while since I've been up there.

The "Bible" for the Bay is Guide to Cruising Chesapeake Bay, published by Chesapeake Bay Magazine. Updated annually.

Edited by - Even Chance on 03/05/2010 12:08:48

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 03/05/2010 : 12:19:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JohnP
 ...You must have experience with commercial traffic from your Great Lakes sailing.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I didn't mean to imply Jack had never seen a ship, although since he's from Lake Geneva, I sorta assumed his Great Lakes sailing was on Michigan, where he'll rarely see one. When he does, it'll be 40 miles off-shore where nobody sails. Some of the other Great Lakes are a different story--the ore boats can be intimidating!

Edited by - on

Frank Law
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Response Posted - 03/05/2010 : 12:29:04

Hey Jack I've been on that stretch of the Bay about 4-5 times aboard my brothers 50' trawler. We usually go Deltaville to Solomonns Island ( n. shore Pauteuxtant Riv.) in one day. Flag Harbor sounds good Too. The 2nd day we end up in Tilghman Island (Knapps Narrows) only because its more in line with the Bay Bridge..The Potomac Riv. is forever (10 miles?. The worst weather I've ever encountered was between Deltaville and Solomonns,, 2-3' waves 10-15 mphwinds turned into 8-10' waves and 45-50 mph winds. (no Warnings from NOAA).. 2 days sounds good. Note between Solomonns and Deale there are NO other PORTS except Flag Harbor.
By the way His boat only makes about 7 mph ,,If sailing your times will differ.
Frank Law
"ABOUT TIME"
#3519 sr swk

Edited by - on

Even Chance
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Response Posted - 03/05/2010 : 15:03:28

Note between Solomonns and Deale there are NO other PORTS except Flag Harbor.

. . . except Breezy Point, Chesapeake Beach, and Herrington Harbor South.

Edited by - on

Jack Schafer
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Response Posted - 03/05/2010 : 15:04:17

Thanks you all for the great tips!! This is a "new" boat for my son,who does have experience. A 1989 Beneteau,bought from Annapolis yacht sales. They will have the boat ready and in the water by the 24th (hopefully). His plan is to sail to Soloman Island from Deltaville the first day, however,weather depending,we do have 2 1/2 days for the trip,and if necessary longer.

He has good charts,but I have downloaded the charts you have suggested,just in case!

Oh yes,we do have commercial shipping on Lake Michigan,6-8'waves,20-30 mph winds. but no sharks or tides!!

Edited by - on

Even Chance
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Response Posted - 03/05/2010 : 15:29:09

Sounds like fun, Jack. I made it from Solomon's to a point on the Eastern Shore across from Deltaville in one day, but it's a LONG day.

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
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Response Posted - 03/05/2010 : 20:10:13

I have never seen so much relevant information submitted to a single request for information in 6 years of reading this forum.
You guys are the bomb!

Edited by - on

Voyager
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Response Posted - 03/05/2010 : 20:31:20

I thought the D&C canal was pretty funny, which is an entirely different story!

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 03/06/2010 : 09:15:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Jack Schafer
 Oh yes,we do have commercial shipping on Lake Michigan...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...but not like the Chesapeake--I grew up by, and cut my boating teeth on Lake Michigan--talk about long stretches of beach with nowhere to hide... (!!) The Chesapeake is a fascinating place--so much more stuff going on and places to explore! (I still want to visit Smith and/or Tangier Islands.) With some decent weather, you'll love it! I still think about Chestertown as my final stop...

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 03/06/2010 09:21:58

Even Chance
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Response Posted - 03/06/2010 : 12:07:51

Chestertown's a great town. My father's family is from that area. You'd want to keep your boat in Rock Hall, because it's a long trip up and down the Chester to the Bay. Wonderful small college there: Washington College. A friend of mine is the current President.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Response Posted - 03/06/2010 : 16:16:53

Ya Brooke, I've thought about (in the future) making Heron Point CCRC in Chestertown (across the highway from Washington College) the final leg of my journey... There are a few small marinas along the lower Chester River, and of course there's Rock Hall--the fading watermen's center and current yachting center. I'd be curious about the speed conventions on the Chester--my current boat might be happy in the marina just south of town. I currently put up with 40 minutes to "big water" to have my boat outside my condo door.

Edited by - on

Even Chance
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Response Posted - 03/06/2010 : 16:29:16

You could do a lot worse, Dave. Sometime when you're driving in that area, go south from Rock Hall down Eastern Neck. The last estate on the right before Willson Point (usually misspelled with one L) is Trumpington. That, and Ellendale to its north, are the Willson ancestral homesteads.

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redviking
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Response Posted - 03/07/2010 : 05:51:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Sloop Smitten
 I have never seen so much relevant information submitted to a single request for information in 6 years of reading this forum.
You guys are the bomb!

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

And all of this for a hundred mile run!

I have transited that area a few times now. The Deltaville Solomon run sounds tight, I've had to come into Solomon Is. and anchor in the dark before. Fun place to drive around when dark.

sten

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
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Response Posted - 03/07/2010 : 11:21:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Sloop Smitten
 I have never seen so much relevant information submitted to a single request for information in 6 years of reading this forum.
You guys are the bomb!

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

And all of this for a hundred mile run!

I have transited that area a few times now. The Deltaville Solomon run sounds tight, I've had to come into Solomon Is. and anchor in the dark before. Fun place to drive around when dark.

sten
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

If you're not familiar with Solomon's Island, it can be daunting at night, because Rivers and creeks and inlets go in every direction, although a gps with chartplotter helps.

That's why I suggested they go to Flag Harbor. To get to Solomon's Island, you have to divert for nearly an hour up the Patuxent River. By the time they get there, it'll probably be too late to enjoy the area's attractions. Then it'll take another hour the next morning to get back out the river to the Bay and around the LNG terminal. When they're short on time, they ought to use it to get to their destination.

Flag Harbor is a little farther up the bay, and it'll make that day's leg a little longer, but at least it'll all be in the right direction, and there's no lost time getting in and out. When you get to the entrance, it's only 3-4 minutes to any slip in the marina.

Edited by - on

Jack Schafer
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Response Posted - 03/07/2010 : 21:11:11

thanks again, I appreciate all the info We are receiving. We are really looking forward to this trip. Every one has given us great information that we will take very seriously. It is great to know all the possibilities we have and will consider every one. Now all we need is the weather to cooperate. Maybe when I get back 2nd Wind will have her nose out of the snow bank

Edited by - on

OJ
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Response Posted - 03/08/2010 : 07:00:11

Ditto!

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Oscar
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Response Posted - 03/09/2010 : 18:10:54

Been sailing the Chez for 8 or so years.....

Everything said above.

One note to add to shipping..... Check Chapmans for the lights/day signals on a tug towing a barge. And pay attention for same. The tow can be quite long, and people try to cut behind the tug..... a BAD idea. All big ships have US pilots on board (heading for or coming from Baltimore). They speak English and like to hear from you if there's ANY doubt about who's doing what. 16/13 VHF

CRAB POTS EVERYWHERE!!!!! Make sure to avoid them, and/or be prepared to go overboard to cut one out of your prop. I have quite a few times, and carried a wet suit and goggles plus a VERY sharp knife. Cutters on the prop shaft are HIGHLY recommended).

This time of year the crabs are in warmer water, 20-25 feet. That's where you'll find the pots. The nets mentioned earlier, a 100' line of many stakes in about 8-12 feet of water. At night you may or may not see them until you're on top of them. They are perpendicular to the shore. Usually the area's are marked on the chart. ("Fish Traps") Bring one of those high powered flash lights.

I want to reiterate the mouth of the bigger rivers being tricky, and possibly nasty when tide opposes river flow after heavy rain/wind. If the Potomac is too much to get across, go right behind Smith Point Lighthouse into the Little Wycomico. It's a little tricky to get in and out of, I don't recommend doing that at night for the first time. But, it's a beautiful little creek with a bezillion places to anchor and wait for better weather.

Watch the prohibited area at N38.13 It's a live bombing range. When active and you get in the way they will 1 Call you on the radio, 2 Send a Navy boat after you, or buzz you with a mil aircraft.

If you don't want to go all the way into Solomon's you can anchor right inside Drum Point, as long as it's a windward shore. Not a good place to be when exposed.

Stay clear of the LNG dock. They have NO sense of humor.

North of that it's limited shelter until Herrington Harbor South which is a good harbor. I've not been into Chesapeake Beach, and suspect that there is a reason it's not part of my repertoire. Don't have a cruising guide handy.

After Herrington Bay it's a piece of cake. Lots of places to hide.

I used to do Cape Charles (the bottom of the Bay) to Rock Hall or vice versa in 24 hours, 125 nm. 2-1/2 for your trip means sleeping at night and getting up in daylight, having coffee and breakfast. Luxury.

Weather should be relatively stable in March.

Edited by - on

Even Chance
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Response Posted - 03/09/2010 : 18:21:05

IF you stay in water deeper than 20', crab pots are usually not a problem. They're not supposed to be in marked channels, although they sometimes drift after a storm.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 03/09/2010 : 21:02:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Oscar
 ...I've not been into Chesapeake Beach, and suspect that there is a reason it's not part of my repertoire. Don't have a cruising guide handy...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">My Gunknoler's Guide refers to 7' of water for anchoring--maybe a little thin for your C-42, and a 10' fixed bridge somewhere inside--I'm guessing that's a tad short.

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.