Association Forum - bottom paint

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

bottom paint

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

dave andersen
1st Mate

Member Avatar

85 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/08/2010 : 11:09:35

will 1 gallon of west marine's bottom paint give me two coats on my C-25?

Any recommendations on the type of paint?

Does $500 sound about right for a boat yard to do the job?

thanks, "Raven"

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2010 : 13:26:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dave andersen
 will 1 gallon of west marine's bottom paint give me two coats on my C-25?

Any recommendations on the type of paint?

Does $500 sound about right for a boat yard to do the job?

thanks, "Raven"
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I just had mine done and it was $800. They un-stepped my mast, pulled the boat, sanded, painted and put her back in and re-rigged her. Typically bottom jobs are $800 to $1000 here in North Texas.

Tell you what though, she flies now! So glad I had it done. It makes a HUGE difference. I went from last place in races to third overall the other weekend.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2010 : 14:05:47

haul, pressure wash, light sanding, 2 coats of paint, launch is about $600 here in San Diego.

I would think you could get two coats with 1 gallon. Rudder needs more in fact 2 coats on my rudder only lasts 6 months. 2 coats on the hull lasts 2 - 3 years. Leading edge of keel and that little stumpy keel in the back just before the rudder needs extra. Might buy an extra pint for those areas plus for when you need to pull the rudder and recoat.

I always use black. Many people use a different color than last time so when you start to see through the new paint you know its time.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2010 : 14:30:49

Are you familiar with the difference between "ablative" (or "co-polymer") and hard paints? The Search function will give you lots of discussions. If you're painting over older paint, you should know what type the old stuff is and check compatibility. Most ablatives can go over most hard paints, but not vice versa. Interlux and Pettit show compatibilities on their web sites.

Not being a racer, I like an ablative with an anti-slime additive (Interlux's Biolux or Pettit's Irgarol)--it's worth the little extra. Hard-core racers tend toward hard paints for a slick surface. I have red paint over a black "signal coat" (the technique Jim described) that shows me when and where to add paint. Lately I've used Pettit's Ultima SR, mostly because of the price. I sometimes wonder whether Interlux puts gold dust in their paints instead of copper.

I doubt you'll get two full coats out of a gallon unless you thin the paint a little, which sort of defeats the purpose of two coats. I generally used 2/3 - 3/4 of a gallon for a coat on my fin keel C-25. The good news is leftover paint can be kept for the next haulout.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 03/08/2010 14:39:16

skrenz
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
351 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2010 : 16:20:03

In terms of hard or ablative paints, are all trailer-able or will the ablatives come off when you pull her up onto the trailer?

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3462 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2010 : 16:25:09

I used Micron Extra copolymer about 3 years ago and so far it's doing okay and that's with the boat in the water all year-round and getting a pressure wash, so far, once a year. In the Potomac River, I have no barnacle issues but we get a good coat of slime. Similar to Dave, I was only able to get one coat out of the gallon with a little left over. (I had yard services do the work.)

Dave - Sent you an EMail ! I'll be in Mystic next week !

Edited by - OLarryR on 03/08/2010 16:28:14

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2010 : 19:41:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OLarryR
 Dave - Sent you an EMail ! I'll be in Mystic next week !
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I didn't get it. Try it direct: bristle at att dot net.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
5371 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2010 : 20:30:38

When I painted Passage's hull last year, I painted two coats of blue over one coat of red. I have about a pint of blue left in the gallon.

This winter, some of the red was showing through in the following spots:
along the waterline (where the powerwasher hit the grass during haulout), front and back of the keel (where the current passed by all summer) and by the rudder mount. The rudder itself requires another coat.

I did get a little crazing on the bottom paint after she was hauled and dried. I plan to hand sand her with some 80 grit sandpaper this spring. Gonna use my respirator and paper/plastic environmental hood.

But first, need the yard to turn on the water so I can remove the old Poliglow. The instructions say that Poliglow remover will adversely affect my bottom paint.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2010 : 21:26:29

If you are trailering your boat, a hard finish bottom paint is generally preferred.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2010 : 22:31:55

The dilemma is that many hard paints lose their effectiveness in a few weeks or months of air exposure, while ablatives generally don't. (Check the labels or the web sites for recommended maximum time before launch.) If you can float your boat pretty close to the bow stop on the trailer and you have rollers instead of bunks, there might not be too much loss of ablative paint. If you're dry-sailing off the trailer, with limited time periods in the water--a few days in salt water or a week at a time in fresh--you might be better off without paint altogether, and washing down thoroughly after each retrieval.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 03/08/2010 22:33:17

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3462 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2010 : 04:54:18

Since I do not race, my paint preference mainly has to do with longevity and maintaining little buildup through the years of repainting. I guess if I continue to have the yard service the bottom job, then the ease of preparing the surface doesn't matter that much. The ablatives/copolymers are soft enough that it will definitely come off on your finger if you just take a gentle swipe but it does not remove the full coat - Plenty of base matl is still on there. So, for trailering, the coating may come off in areas where there is rubbing. On the positive side, you may get multi-year service from it.

The coating for boats that remain in the water all year stays on thru the years and when it's time to repaint there is little paint buildup. The PO owner had painted it 4 years before I bought the boat and when I had it pressure washed and inspected soon after purchase, the thought was to let it go another year. So, that coating lasted 5 years ! Granted it was in river water and slime is the only culprit. Still, there are others with hard coatings that have it removed each year or two and have their boats repainted and since many leave their boats in all year, the expense of having it lifted out, pressure washed, then travel lifting it ~ 100 yards at 2 mph, painted and then hauled back to the river winds up costing in excess of $1000 with the owner paying for the paint (another $100-$200). That's about $2500-$4500 versus $1000 for multi-year use with ablative/copolymer paints, so it is a decision point depending on where you sail, if you keep the boat in all year and if you frequently race. Trailering....not sure but probably the hard coatings and repainting each year is probably best.

The thing is that while the mtn cost is expensive, the pressure washing isn't. The local marina has a Tuesday racing special and charges only $75 to have the boat lifted , pressure washed and lowered back into the water. The pressure washing makes such a huge difference in boat speed that my thought is that some could do decent racing with 2 pressure washings a year - One at beginning and mid-sailing season. So....an ablative paint may work for some that are not hard core racers.

Dave - Received your EMail and responded direct. Apparently, you never received the one I first sent via the Forum's EMail generator.

Edited by - OLarryR on 03/09/2010 04:56:55

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2010 : 07:42:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OLarryR

The thing is that while the mtn cost is expensive, the pressure washing isn't. The local marina has a Tuesday racing special and charges only $75 to have the boat lifted , pressure washed and lowered back into the water. The pressure washing makes such a huge difference in boat speed that my thought is that some could do decent racing with 2 pressure washings a year - One at beginning and mid-sailing season. So....an ablative paint may work for some that are not hard core racers.

Dave - Received your EMail and responded direct. Apparently, you never received the one I first sent via the Forum's EMail generator.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I wish our marina offered something like that. Some of the boats do hire scuba divers to go down and scrub the bottoms. Being in a lake, all we get is slime as well, although we are braced for the onslaught of zebra mussels as they've been discovered in an adjoining lake. Here are some pics from my bottom job.

BEFORE

AFTER

Edited by - on

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2010 : 13:00:28

I would check with those in the same lake and/or other lake sailors for recomendations of specific paints perform the best in fresh water. Regarding "hard" vs "ablative" paints, that too is more a function of use. I sail in less than pristine salt water, don't race and stay on a mooring all season and have good luck with West Marine PCA Gold (made by Petite, ablative with ingarol)which also goes on sale early in the season. With a full keel you will use just enough over half a gallon per coat to frustrate you -- and make that second gallon necessary.

One good tip this forum taught me was to paint the first coat in a contrasting color, then one or two top coats in the final color. this makes it easy to see when you are down to the botom coat and, therefore, should re-paint. Good luck with the project!

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

Members Avatar

USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2010 : 14:08:39

Peter,
I notice that the pads on the trailer are not in contact with your boat. Is that a yard trailer?

I'm starting to noodle on how I'm going to be able to lift SL to soda blast & paint under the pads & keel, and I'm looking for ideas.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2010 : 14:50:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 . . . starting to noodle on how I'm going to be able to lift SL to soda blast & paint under the pads & keel, and I'm looking for ideas.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
David, I'm not sure what trailer config you have, but when I painted the hull on my 1981 C25, I cut down a house jack (had the base plate welded to the outer tube) and braced the boat on the center-line of the hull. I placed a 3' long 2x4 between the jack and the hull in the vicinity of a bulkhead forward and then under the hull's fin aft. I snugged-up the trailer winch strap just to add a little bit of stability. I then lowered the four roller-trains - (naturally) one at a time.

Edited by - OJ on 03/09/2010 15:23:28

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2010 : 16:55:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 Peter,
I notice that the pads on the trailer are not in contact with your boat. Is that a yard trailer?

I'm starting to noodle on how I'm going to be able to lift SL to soda blast & paint under the pads & keel, and I'm looking for ideas.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">There are lots of ways to do it. Is your trailer a roller bunk trailer, or fixed bunk? If you have a roller bunk trailer, painting under the rollers is so easy, you won't believe it. You just roll the boat aft far enough (about 10-12 inches) to paint under the rollers.

The way I did it with my C22 was to paint the bottom and keel, except for the parts under the bunks. Then I jacked up the trailer with the boat on it. Then I built a wooden cradle under it, so that the support bunks were in a slightly different location from the trailer bunks. Then I lowered the trailer out from under the boat, and let the boat rest on the cradle. Then I sanded and painted the areas under the bunks. Then I jacked up the trailer until it lifted the boat off the wooden cradle, disassembled the cradle, and lowered the boat and trailer to the ground. It wasn't as big a job as it sounds. Obviously, the cradle has to be sturdy enough, well braced and cross-braced, and bolted (not nailed) together.

If you can rent some boat jackstands from a marina, you could do a similar procedure, by jacking up the boat and trailer, place some concrete blocks under the keel, Lower the whole rig until the keel is just above the blocks, put the jackstands in place and adjust their height. Then lower the trailer out from under the boat, letting the boat rest on the jackstands and blocks. Then reverse the procedure when you're done.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 03/09/2010 16:59:13

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2010 : 15:03:54

Edited by - on

skrenz
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
351 Posts

Response Posted - 03/15/2010 : 15:26:38

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.