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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4316 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/23/2010 : 15:25:28

Sorry in advance if this gets a bit long winded.

When I bought my boat in October 2007 from the PO I had to sign a new lease agreement which became effective on Nov 1, 2007. In late June or early July 2008 we had a small tropical storm headed our way so I temporarily moved my boat farther away from the bay to a hurricane hole marina that was well protected. That was for about a week I believe. When I moved back to my old slip I asked them if they had any floating slips in the inner harbor. Turns out they did and I moved to my present slip I believe on August 1, 2008. They gave my the same rate ($177.00/mth) as my fixed slip because the floating slip was only 10' wide.

In September 2008 Hurricane Ike was headed our way so I once again moved the boat back to my hurricane hole marina. After Ike destroyed a good part of the marina and they were not going to have any operating facilities for several months I informed them I would not be moving back to my floating slip. They were totally understanding and said no problem. I told them once they got back up and running I would be back.

From Septemeber 2008 to March 1, 2009 I was at the other marina. On March 1, 2009 I moved back to my present slip and signed a new lease. At that time they told me my Account # would be the same as before.

In January 2010 I received a notice from my marina that my slip fees were going from $182.00/mth to $205.00/mth when my lease renewed on March 1, 2010. Today I got another rate increase notice going from $205.00/mth to $246.00/mth with a comment that my anniversay date is November 1, 2007.

In my opinion since I was gone for 6 months and signed a new lease my anniversary date should be March 1st, not November 1st.

As mentioned above, my floating slip is one of four in the marina that is 10' wide instead of the normal 12' wide. The marina has always given a discount for these slips because they are so narrow and they had problems renting them to larger boats. Now apparently they've decided not to honor that any longer.

Needless to say my loyalty to them means nothing (not sure why I'm surprised!).

Besides calling them tomorrow and explaining the situation above, do any of you have any suggestions on how I should handle this situation?

Edit: BTW... the marina has been doing a major rebuild since Ike and all of the slips they've been replacing have been 50 - 65' floating slips, replacing many smaller fixed docks.

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Edited by - GaryB on 05/23/2010 15:30:53

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2010 : 17:43:02

Could be as simple as a new office person, not familiar w/ your relationship w/ them...I'd call them and explain your POV...but, I'm also curious - if there is another marina, which in times of need serves you better, why not just stay w/ them as a regular? (BTW - our monthly dockage is $360, includes water, but electric is extra...)

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4316 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2010 : 17:59:38

Unfortuantely, the person in the office has been with this marina for years.

It may be they see the error in their ways when I explain there were no payments for 6 months while I was at the other marina therefore creating a new contract.

The hurricane hole marina is 45 minutes farther from the bay plus it's mostly 30'+ power boats. There are 3 marina's that are closer to the bay than where I am now so you can bet I will be calling all three tomorrow in case my marina doesn't see my POV. One of the marinas has some boat slips with slings so if I could happen to get one of those I'd be out of the water.

Honestly, I think my marina is trying to run us small guys outso they can move the big boys in.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2010 : 18:05:57

My marina eliminated 80 25" slips to put in about 15 or 20 50' slips. I had to move in 60 spaces so now I'm closer to the pool, bathhouse, parking lot AND all the noisy powerboaters.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4316 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2010 : 18:40:08

I'd guess between Ike and the new slips they've installed they've eliminated at least 80 slips if not more.

My slip is deep in the back corner of an inner basin and only 4 slips from shore. It can be blowing 35 knots and I just get a nice breeze in my slip with absolutely no wave action at all. I'm equal distance between 2 clubhouses but unfortunately I'm about as far as you can get from either pool.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2010 : 19:11:57

"All politics is local." Revisit the other marinas in the area... Your marina is probably just following the trends, which indeed are toward larger boats that yield more $$ per square foot of overall space. Smaller slips have a higher percentage of "overhead" for fingers, pilings, fairways, etc., so are not as profitable for marinas. These days you often see them only where draft is limited to that which can be used by outboard powerboats.

Today's "starter yacht" is a 34-39' Sea Ray, not the 22-25' Catalina or Bayliner of yesteryear. Your only alternative is probably to vote with your feet--if your local market makes that possible (which it might not.) I'm learning a little about the costs involved, as a board member and prime user of the docks at my condo.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/23/2010 19:13:01

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4316 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2010 : 19:33:32

I'm sure you're right. It's a lot easier and takes less time to collect and process the monthly slip fees from 50 - 50 footers vs 75 - 25 footers and as you mentioned the maintenance on less finger piers and such makes a substantial difference on the bottom line.

I've been thinking about selling my boat anyway and going back to a daysailer or a Hobie. I could keep it on a trailer at the house and tow it wherever I want to go sailing. The bay one weekend and the Texas Hill Country Lakes the next. I like lake sailing more anyway. If you get hot just jump overboard. Do that in Galveston Bay and you may come out glowing in the dark!

Know anyone looking for an '89 SR/WK with a trailer? $11K and it's yours!

Edited by - on

Even Chance
Captain

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USA
393 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2010 : 03:50:25

Gary, I feel your pain -- I'm changing marinas after nine years (see my thread about that a few weeks ago). I agree with you and Dave about the upwards tilt of boating in general. I never cease to be amazed at articles in sailing magazines about 35' starter boats. Look at the trending by our beloved Catalina Yachts, Inc., towards bigger and bigger boats. I guess there's more profit margin for both boat builders and marinas in big boats.

Two years ago when the economy was crashing, I had a telling conversation with a marina owner who said, "this won't affect people with money -- they'll continue to drive big boats, because they can afford to." I think that's what I see happening. The party's over, and yachting will increasingly return to being a pastime for people with significant means. Such is the pity.

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2010 : 07:19:50

I pay $165 a month for a 27' slip, includes water and electricity (within reason, if I consume a bunch they put a meter on my slip. )

Interesting to see what everyone pays.

Edited by - on

Ed Cassidy
Captain

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USA
365 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2010 : 08:34:44

The local county dock here is charging $5.00 per foot.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3477 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2010 : 08:57:50

About $115 per month, no elect, water at the head of the dock, non potable. But this is the windy side and we kinda havta keep extra dock lines with snubbers just to handle the wakes from the rich boaters. ( BIG Boats ) They pay more on the protected side.

My "new" anchor light is busted from to top of my mast hitting the top of the mast on the boat next to me, from either the waves or a storm.

So I'm a halyard anchor light for now.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4316 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2010 : 11:13:21

Well so far I've found a 12 X 27" floating slip in another marina that is five (5) minutes from the bay for $210.00 + elec.(I've never used more than $3.00 worth in a given month), free water.

The only downside is it's just off a major highway with 3 lanes of traffic in each direction.

They also have a fixed dock for $166.00/mth. It's farther back from the highway and it would probably take me 10 minutes to get to the bay. Not sure I'm ready to go back to a fixed dock for $44.00/mth less.

Also found out I might be able to get a slip with a sling for $234.00/mth if my boat is set up similar to a J80. I'd have to get on a waiting list though.

I haven't made my call to my marina yet. I want to have some ammo (like they will really care) when I do discuss my issue with them.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4316 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2010 : 17:46:54

Took a look at the slips at lunch. The 12 X 27 is on an old dock that's in OK condition. It's a long walk from the car to the boat but once on the boat I'm about 100 yards from the main channel in a very well protected area. From slip to the bay would be no more than 5 minutes.

The traffic may not be too bad, the bridge is pretty high so I'm thinking most of the noise will be above the boat. Besides there are so many Fountains, Skaters, and Scarabs running on the weekend they would drowned out the car noise anyways. I can hear them from my current dock.

The fixed dock is a no way. The ratty old boat on one side is halfway into the slip already and looks like it's been sitting for a year or two without being moved.

Besides I'm a grumpy old fart that doesn't allow drinking while underway!

The slips with a sling are very narrow and the marina people said they never get any vacancies. All of the boats are J22's and J24's. They are all hardcore racers.

Guess I'll decide after I talk to my marina. I got to thinking that I was going to pull the boat this winter anyway and put it in covered storage so I could do some maintenance during the cold months. Might be easier and cheaper to just pay the $245 for 4 more months and then pull the boat.

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2010 : 06:44:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 Took a look at the slips at lunch. The 12 X 27 is on an old dock that's in OK condition. It's a long walk from the car to the boat but once on the boat I'm about 100 yards from the main channel in a very well protected area. From slip to the bay would be no more than 5 minutes.

The traffic may not be too bad, the bridge is pretty high so I'm thinking most of the noise will be above the boat. Besides there are so many Fountains, Skaters, and Scarabs running on the weekend they would drowned out the car noise anyways. I can hear them from my current dock.

The fixed dock is a no way. The ratty old boat on one side is halfway into the slip already and looks like it's been sitting for a year or two without being moved.

Besides I'm a grumpy old fart that doesn't allow drinking while underway!

The slips with a sling are very narrow and the marina people said they never get any vacancies. All of the boats are J22's and J24's. They are all hardcore racers.

Guess I'll decide after I talk to my marina. I got to thinking that I was going to pull the boat this winter anyway and put it in covered storage so I could do some maintenance during the cold months. Might be easier and cheaper to just pay the $245 for 4 more months and then pull the boat.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Gary, my boat is pretty close to Interstate-30, maybe a 100 to 150 yards. Most of the time, unless it's late on a quiet night, I don't "hear" the traffic. It's one of those things that becomes background white noise that you get used to.

If you zoom in on this sat view, you can see the long strong of sailboats on "R" dock in the middle, that's where my boat is. The large structure is a big night club, the smaller,m which I'm directly behind, is the marina store/office/bathrooms. I-30 bisects the lake.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=bayview+marina+lake+ray+hubbard&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hl=en&hq=bayview+marina&hnear=Lake+Ray+Hubbard&ll=32.874875,-96.51603&spn=0.00692,0.016512&t=h&z=17

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2010 : 07:47:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 My marina eliminated 80 25" slips to put in about 15 or 20 50' slips. I had to move in 60 spaces so now I'm closer to the pool, bathhouse, parking lot AND all the noisy powerboaters.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

There are a ton of new incentives going on down our way at EYC

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4316 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2010 : 18:23:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by PCP777
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 Took a look at the slips at lunch. The 12 X 27 is on an old dock that's in OK condition. It's a long walk from the car to the boat but once on the boat I'm about 100 yards from the main channel in a very well protected area. From slip to the bay would be no more than 5 minutes.

The traffic may not be too bad, the bridge is pretty high so I'm thinking most of the noise will be above the boat. Besides there are so many Fountains, Skaters, and Scarabs running on the weekend they would drowned out the car noise anyways. I can hear them from my current dock.

The fixed dock is a no way. The ratty old boat on one side is halfway into the slip already and looks like it's been sitting for a year or two without being moved.

Besides I'm a grumpy old fart that doesn't allow drinking while underway!

The slips with a sling are very narrow and the marina people said they never get any vacancies. All of the boats are J22's and J24's. They are all hardcore racers.

Guess I'll decide after I talk to my marina. I started thinking that I maybe I would pull the boat this winter and put it in covered storage so I could do some maintenance during the cold months. Might be easier and cheaper to just pay the $245 for 4 or 5 more months and then pull the boat.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Gary, my boat is pretty close to Interstate-30, maybe a 100 to 150 yards. Most of the time, unless it's late on a quiet night, I don't "hear" the traffic. It's one of those things that becomes background white noise that you get used to.

If you zoom in on this sat view, you can see the long strong of sailboats on "R" dock in the middle, that's where my boat is. The large structure is a big night club, the smaller,m which I'm directly behind, is the marina store/office/bathrooms. I-30 bisects the lake.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=bayview+marina+lake+ray+hubbard&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hl=en&hq=bayview+marina&hnear=Lake+Ray+Hubbard&ll=32.874875,-96.51603&spn=0.00692,0.016512&t=h&z=17
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I know exactly where you're docked. When I was looking for my boat I spent several days working with Carol over at Inland Sailing. One of the boats she was brokering was at your marina. I like the way the marina and and night club are setup.

The boat I looked at was in one of the 4 slips at the west end of the the dock directly behind the swimming pool.

It's interesting how there is one slip in the middle of each of the covered slips just east of you that has the roof missing and a sailboat docked. I'd love to have a setup like that to keep the sun off the boat most of the day.

Edited by - GaryB on 05/25/2010 19:04:33

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4316 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2010 : 18:45:37

Hey! Mark May 25, 2010 as a day to remember! Something went right for GaryB!!!

I went to the marina office today loaded with ammo and ready for battle. I calmly laid out the two notices I got and told them I thought there might be a mix-up.

The lady asked me if I had signed a new lease agreement in March and I told her that as I understood it I didn't have to and that the old lease would automatically renew at the new rate. She explained that was incorrect and I should have signed a new lease.

She then proceeded to mark through the latest notice I received Saturday and said she would honor the $205 rate for a full year. On top of that she said she would start the new lease as of June 1st which effectively means I get the lower rate for 15 months instead of 12!

She explained that they were told to start charging everyone the full rate for each size slip and that I actually had one of the last leases to renew at the special rate. Most other people have already experienced the rate increase. She said I could expect to see my rate increase to the $246 rate at the end of my lease next year. My guess is the increase will be even bigger by that time.

I have to give them credit, they really seemed like they were interested in keeping my business. I'll now be responsible and take back all of my negative statements above. As usual I was wrong.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3477 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2010 : 05:25:42

You were not wrong, just trying to prepair yourself for what could have been a nasty reality. Ain't it Grand when good things happen!

Whooo Hoooooo.......

My marina was owned by a local family for many many years and now a Big company has bought it. Makes me shivver...

We made jokes about nothing at the marina ever changing. As it turns out the new company is working out well.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3477 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2010 : 07:32:46

http://www.aqualandmarina.com/

Check that baby out..

The pictures of the parties will kill you..

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2010 : 09:32:55

Ray, where is Lake Lanier Sailing Club in relation to the photo of aqualandmarina?

Re fees, our rate went up this year from $105 to $115 per month. Not a bad increase considering all the upgrades the City did this past year, including dock replacements and full 30 amp electrical service. Oh yes, we don't have to pay extra for the electric power, at least not this year!

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3477 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2010 : 10:01:04

To the left of this image, on the right side of the next peninsula of land that extends. I always call it the Grassy Knoll in front of the clubhouse.

I havn't picked my standing by channels for Lanier yet. I'm guessing 16 and 68 and 15 or something. Every time I scan I get nothing, so I don't really know what the social network is for Lanier.

From what I've seen so far it is 16 and jump to something they have not checked, cause they are all open.

Anyhoo.. next time you race Lanier let me know. If I'm out I'll give you a shout.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3477 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2010 : 10:20:52

Hey Gary... you should tell the Marina you want a month rebate for every hurricane...

Now there I go again... I said that word.

I hafta change slips every two years cause they put a sailor next to me that can't tie up his boat. I've got a pontoon boat next to me with 3 short nylon strands going to his boat for docklines, and two of the last ones that broke hanging from the boat. Even the hardtop on this boat looks like it would fold over in a storm.

Ah the Terrors of the Sea.

Sounds like a good name for a boat.

That reminds me, gotta move the boat. I'll hafta take a picture, ya'll would get a kick out of it.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2010 : 18:51:40

Probably won't be down to Lanier until the Gone With the Wind regatta in Sept.
The guy I race with got flooded out May 1-2. Water was about 4 ft in his garage and 15" in hid first floor. He was about a mile from the closest river and it turned his back yard into a lake.

Edited by - on

John Pittman
1st Mate

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USA
44 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2010 : 20:35:48

This shouldlmake you all feel better, here in California on Lake Tahoe bouy fees range from 2,000-2,700 for the season.
Thats generally Memorial to Labor day sometimes you can get in earlier in May and stay out through Oct depending on the weather. This year it been snowing off and on for the last couple of weeks with 4-5 inches coming tomorrow evening.
I wont even mention slip fees.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2010 : 05:56:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Pittman
 
This shouldlmake you all feel better, here in California on Lake Tahoe bouy fees range from 2,000-2,700 for the season.
I wont even mention slip fees.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
John, since you wont mention slip fees, I will. This should make you feel better.

Here in Newport Beach, CA my slip fees are double the high end of your buoy fees. In the 3 years I have been there, I never have had an increase-oh joy. On the plus side I do get use of my boat almost all year long. I hope I am fortunate to enjoy this privilege for as many years as possible.
Steve A

Edited by - on

ruachwrights
Captain

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USA
258 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2010 : 08:30:57

Gary,
Thanks for demonstrating that we can still prove to the industry that even we peons of the boat world are actual human beings. As for the trends mentioned by Brooke "The party's over, and yachting will increasingly return to being a pastime for people with significant means. Such is the pity." I strongly feel that this is an unnecessary and ultimately hurtful direction for the industry and our culture to take. Catalina, Hunter, Com-Pac, and even Macgregor deserve praise for actually producing cruising sailboats accessible to the middle class. Also, kudos to any marina or city which enables us to keep our boats in the water!

My sense is that the current redistribution of wealth is not extensive enough for most marinas to do without us.

Yet.

Vern

Edited by - on

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