Association Forum - Companionway ladder => My sore butt

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Companionway ladder => My sore butt

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Member Avatar

2271 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/27/2010 : 19:51:51

I have the biggest purple bruise on my butt that you could ever imagine.

I slipped off the second step on the companionway ladder. The first time this happened I avoided injury, and promised myself to be more careful in the future. But this time I was down in the cabin, and left a digital camera and brand new ratchet tool set in the cockpit. A sudden downpour started with no warning, and I rushed up to the cockpit to retrieve everything, and hurried back down the companionway. I slipped and fell very hard. I am lucky I did not break an arm or hit my head.

Two things caused this. First, as I am sure you all know, the top step is about twice as wide as the two below. So the ladder gets steeper for the bottom steps. If you are in a hurry, you will over-step going down, as you assume that the bottom steps are as wide as the top one. This is a real design problem. My boat broker fell in the same way the first time he got onto the boat.

The second issue is that the steps were wet due to the downpour. The smooth fiberglas edge around the steps was undoubtedly slippery.

Aside from adding non-skid tape to the top and front edge of the steps (which I will do next time I am on the boat), has anyone else come up with ways to improve the safety of this companionway ladder? I dread getting injured while I'm underway.

Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
PO of Take Five, 1998 Catalina 250WK #348 (relocated to Baltimore's Inner Harbor)
New owner of 2001 Catalina 34MkII #1535 Breakin' Away (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

Edited by - TakeFive on 05/28/2010 03:47:11

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2010 : 05:36:18

Although I'm not familiar with the 250 it sounds like those steps are a challenge. As you mention I think good non-skid tape is your best option, not sure there's anything else except building a custom set of steps. Maybe making sure you wear good shoes. But ya know, these boats are not safe places and it's imperative that we remember that think about what we're doing before we do it.

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2010 : 06:16:22

When going below on "Brandy" I usually go down the stairs backwards,
lessons the chances of slipping and there is usually a hand hold available. These are fixed steps so yours may be different. JMTCW

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2010 : 06:36:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RhythmDoctor
 ...A sudden downpour started with no warning, and I rushed up to the cockpit to retrieve everything, and hurried back down the companionway.... I slipped and fell very hard. I am lucky I did not break an arm or hit my head.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Please don't be offended but might I suggest that you slow down? It might sound a little wierd, but I've always gone down the steps assuming that I would fall. I never go down without holding on to something. so far, it's worked. I don't carry anything heavy (cooler, battery, luggage, etc) on the stairs either. I set anything heavy down at the companionway, go below, turn around and bring it down if I can't hand it down to someone.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2271 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2010 : 07:48:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RhythmDoctor
 ...A sudden downpour started with no warning, and I rushed up to the cockpit to retrieve everything, and hurried back down the companionway.... I slipped and fell very hard. I am lucky I did not break an arm or hit my head.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Please don't be offended but might I suggest that you slow down? It might sound a little wierd, but I've always gone down the steps assuming that I would fall. I never go down without holding on to something. so far, it's worked. I don't carry anything heavy (cooler, battery, luggage, etc) on the stairs either. I set anything heavy down at the companionway, go below, turn around and bring it down if I can't hand it down to someone.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I follow similar procedures with heavy items - always go down first then reach out for them from down below. I had resolved to be more careful, and had done so in many dozens of cases. It was just this one time, when confronted with a sudden downpour that was damaging valuable equipment, that I had a sudden lapse of judgment. I fully admit it, and that's why I chose to use the words that you highlighted. And while I can resolve to myself to just be more careful in the future, I had done that before. However, this incident was a "wake up call" that panic situations can lead to hasty actions, and therefore maybe I should look for an engineered solution to further increase the safety.

Non-skid tape is one thing that I had been considering, and that has now moved to the top of my list. Getting in the habit of going down below backwards is another thing that may be a good idea.

Ultimately developing good habits is a great strategy for safety. And I was well on my way to doing just that. But sometimes unusual conditions can knock you off of your normal habits, so some redundant safety designs are not a bad idea.

Edited by - on

djbano
1st Mate

Members Avatar

67 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2010 : 09:29:41

+1 Bear. The rule, at minimum, is always one hand for the boat. When going below don't approach as stairs but as a potentially slippery ladder that happens to be on a floor that may rock side to side.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

Members Avatar

USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2010 : 09:37:16

While I find going down the stairs backwards a bit tedious, it's certainly easier on my knees & ankle. If I go down forwards, I find myself going down on my heels (right ankle doesn't bend so well any more) which is inherently unstable, so I always use the rails as hand grips and do the leave it on the seat & bring in afterward thing.

I'm a firm believer that nothing on the boat or brought onto the boat is worth hurting myself or anyone else for even if it's brand new. If it's electronics, it's in a protective water proof bag, either a dry bag or dedicated bag for itself, if it were tools, they can be dried, etc. The last time I rushed on the boat, I broke my tiller off in my hand, which didn't make for a fun day out on the boat. Long gone are the days of sliding down ladders on board ship.

I also go out of my way to keep a calm demeanor on the boat, so no one else feels compelled to put themselves in danger by rushing to do something. There are fairly obvious caveats here, like being blown onto a lee shore or something along those lines, but it still calls for deliberate work that's not rushed.

If you want to see something both humorous & pitiful at the same time, watch my geriatric chocolate lab trying to get up the courage to go up or down the stairs. She's very hesitant to go down the stairs, and I think the fact that she can see air in between them when going up confuses her into thinking that they're not actually stairs. I inevitably end up carrying her up & down the stairs. Trying to get on and off the boat on the other hand, or going off the boarding ladder, she's pretty enthusiastic about. Even getting into and out of the inflatable, she's great.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2010 : 12:32:39

Been there. Done that. We hnow have 1" strips of 3M tread tape on each step - makes a BIG difference. I hold one hand on the cabin roof as I descend the steps. I'm curious about your steps. Mine don't get narrower or steeper as you descend.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

Members Avatar

USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2010 : 13:57:45

Rick, the 2nd time I sailed PiSeas II, the same thing happened to me.
The only difference was that I was going down below while carrying something in one hand and bracing with the other. The step was wet as I just washed it. I slipped and I'll bet the bruise on my butt was bigger than yours.

And I have the pics to prove it!
I still went out that day as I was so excited but was in terrible pain.
I now know to NEVER carry ANYTHING down below, or up for that matter.
I brace myself with both hands and take is slow. I warn all my passengers and crew as well. It was a hard lesson to learn and unfortunately sometimes that's what it takes me to learn. I was lucky I did not kill myself. I now have a great understanding towards safety on and off the boat as a result of that fall. Well, lets say much better on the boat...

I still have done some stupid things at home. But I learned after those too.
Steve A

Edited by - on

superbob
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
200 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2010 : 14:14:20

Never thought about going down the ladder backwards. But if you slip wouldn't you bonk your chin instead of your butt? Hmmm.

One hand or both on the rim of the hatch seems to work as there's never been a slip. Now about bonking my head in the cabin....that's the real problem.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2271 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2010 : 17:10:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
 Rick, the 2nd time I sailed PiSeas II, the same thing happened to me.
The only difference was that I was going down below while carrying something in one hand and bracing with the other. The step was wet as I just washed it. I slipped and I'll bet the bruise on my butt was bigger than yours.

And I have the pics to prove it!...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I'll promise NOT to show you mine if you promise NOT to show me yours!

I haven't been able to find 1" 3M non-skid tape. I only found 2", in black. Might prefer 1" if I can find it, to create more of a "tire tread" effect with the stripes. It would be nice if I could find brown, but only been able to find MUCH MORE than I need for MUCH MORE than I want to pay. Any clues on where I can find it?

Edited by - TakeFive on 05/28/2010 21:14:40

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2271 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2010 : 21:50:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 ...I'm curious about your steps. Mine don't get narrower or steeper as you descend.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Technically they do not get steeper. The forward edge of the three steps create a perfect diagonal line. But the top step is almost twice as deep as the two below, giving the impression (when descending) that the steps are less steep than they actually are:

The idea of descending backwards is a great one. That allows you to set the middle of your foot firmly on the step, and the toes can stick out the back. Descending forward definitely relies on your heel bearing most of the weight, which can be very hazardous if wet.

Edited by - TakeFive on 05/28/2010 21:53:40

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2010 : 08:50:03

Rick we got our 1" tape at a local hardware store. We were able to buy it by the foot. We go down the steps facing forward and I hold onto the cabin roof while going down.

Now that I see your photo I realize that the steps are at a uniform angle but that top step is bigger. When I slipped on the steps I launched off the second step and landed on the floor. Ouch! That's when we added the non-slip tape.

I'll be at the boat today and will take a photo. I think we have just one strip on each step and it works very well.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 05/29/2010 08:52:32

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

Members Avatar

USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2010 : 10:13:48

I was able buy about 100' of 1" 3M non slip tape from WM for $0.43/ft, but it took a bunch of research to find that price, and get them to match. They wanted more than $3/foot for it. Once I found the right deal, I called around to the local stores until I found one that had enough and asked for the price match. The stores aren't obligated to match, only their online outlet, so it depends on the manager you talk to.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2010 : 20:04:05

Here is our installation. Haven't had a slip since.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2271 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2010 : 20:11:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
So you're the guy with the cool handles on the companionway hatch! I saw a pic of that a few months ago and was trying to figure out who had them. Where did you get the handles?

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2010 : 20:58:57

West Marine. They are the 10" white handle. We really like this setup. Much easier to handle the companionway hatch and the handles have a soft exterior.

[url="http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=14008&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&storeId=11151&storeNum=10112&subdeptNum=11319&classNum=11384"]AFI White Handle[/url]

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2271 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2010 : 21:03:49

Thanks for the tip. Only problem is that I have the canvas hatch cover, and it's a real tight fit. Do these handles interfere with the cover?

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

Members Avatar

USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2010 : 02:13:12

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Randy, nice safety tip. When I fell, it was from the 1st step and my fanny hit the bottom step and my back hit the 2nd step. That was a double ouch. Maybe its overkill but I think I will use two or three strips per step.I will check my local Ace Hardware on the way to the boat. Can't be too carefull these days.

Steve A

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2271 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2010 : 06:26:09

Regarding the nonskid tape, I think I may use a single strip of 2" wide tape, and go all the way across the front edge, including the slanted sides. We don't like going down below when we're heeling, but you never know when an emergency might require it, and Murphy's Law guarantees that's when we would slip.

Steve - I have a 15' roll of 2" wide tape that I got at Home Depot. If I decide to go this way and not do something else, I should have enough left that I could mail you some pre-cut strips. Let me know.

As for my own fall, I am almost sure that I either missed or slipped off of the 2nd step. I hit my butt (left side) on the edge of one step, which really localized the pressure. I since it happened, I have noticed that I always grab the hatch edges by habit, but in this case I had a ratchet set in my left hand and the rail was wet so probably slipped out of my right hand. What I most remember was the deafening noise of 40 socket attachments hitting against the fiberglass cabin sole!

Edited by - TakeFive on 05/30/2010 06:42:44

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2010 : 07:53:14

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RhythmDoctor
 Thanks for the tip. Only problem is that I have the canvas hatch cover, and it's a real tight fit. Do these handles interfere with the cover?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't have a cover but the handles do protrude and inch or two. I can measure the next time we are out, probably this afternoon.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

Members Avatar

USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2010 : 15:41:28

Rick, thanks for the offer but I stopped at my local Ace hardware Saturday on way to boat and got about 3ft worth. They had both 1 and 2" widths in any length and in black and gray. I got the 1" gray. I will do at least 2 stripes per step.
Steve A

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.