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How much should I pay for this 250WK?

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maha
Deckhand

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USA
5 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/18/2010 : 10:33:26

I found a somewhat-motivated CA dealer with a 2006 250WK that has never seen the water and used only as a demo in his warehouse. It has optional packages including: teak cabin sole, canvas, cushions, window shades, speed/depth guage, VHS radio, 4-wheel trailer with disk brakes. Has 1 set of factory sails (135 jib). Does not have motor, spinnaker, anchors, etc. Is asking $34K. I would very much appreciate your opinion on what you think this boat is worth and how much I should offer. I am graduating from small-boat (Finns, 505's Thistles, etc.) sailing to keel boats and my wife loves the idea of a large cabin and weekend overnights.

Mahavir
2006 C-250 WK #882

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2010 : 11:25:25

[url="http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2006/Catalina-250-Wb-2090152/Naples/FL/United-States"]2006 25' Catalina 250 WB in Florida[/url]for $22,990

I realize this one is a water ballast, but the prices should be close. Some will say the WB is worth more, others will say the opposite. I'd think them about the same in any case. This boat has been dry-sailed. That is, stored out of the water between sails. So, the bottom will likely be nearly as pristine as the one your looking at. It also has a tiller, not a wheel. The wheel adds to the price. The teak and holly also adds value.

The need for a motor will add ~ $2k to your total. If you plan to store it in the water, the cost of barrier coating and bottom painting can be substantial so you'll need to factor that in.

[url="http://www.nadaguides.com/default.aspx?LI=1-24-38-5697-0-0-0&l=1&w=24&p=38&f=5698&m=10351&d=1600236617&y=2006&ml=C&gc=MR>c=MR"]The NADA price guide[/url] says this boat, used, has an average retail price of around $20k. This does not include the trailer so, add $4-$5k for that.

So, I'd guess this boat would sell used for somewhere between $25k and $28k. I might offer him someting in that range and see what happens. The fact that it sat in his warehouse for 4 years or so would suggest it depreciated less than a boat that's been sailed but, it still depreciated. He got use out of it, you shouldn't pay for his use of the boat, regardless of purpose. Besides, if he's a dealer, it's likely he didn't pay retail. Maybe you could ask to see his invoice and go from there.

Edited by - John Russell on 06/18/2010 11:29:36

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2010 : 12:30:03

Hmmm...I ran your boat through NADA for my zip code, and came up with a value of $18.6k which also doesn't include the trailer, as John said you have to allow another $4k or so for that. You should run it through both NADA.com & BUC.com for your area to get a FMV price for it.

For comparison, about 4 years ago we bought our 1997 C-250 WK & trailer (single axle, drums) with a tiller for about $17k, and that came with a bunch of sails including a spinnaker & 110 - 170 sails (our boat won the 2004 nationals), Johnson Saildrive 8 hp outboard, unused canvas hatch cover & stainless hoop (might be standard?), inflatable dinghy, cockpit cushions, solar panel, VHF & antenna, a bunch of life vests, four new tires on the trailer, two anchors & rodes, speed & depth, window shades, carpeted cabin, deck organizers and clutches (those may be standard, not sure), etc.

As John pointed out, if you plan to paint the bottom, figure on $600-$1200 to do that/have it done. It's crucial to have the right paint for your area on the bottom (don't ask how I know this), unless you're dry/day sailing.

We've since added a lot of stuff, but the biggest single purchase was the new outboard ($2k from online outboards, through the association, you'll save more than the cost of a year's dues on that purchase alone). We now have an agreed insured price of $23k with our insurance company.

Not sure how helpful that information is, but maybe it gives you a better idea of what you're looking at.

As John also mentioned, it's unlikely the dealer paid even wholesale for the boat, much less retail, especially if he's a Catalina dealer. It's possible that he's only paid interest on a loan for it, so he may be into the boat for far less than it's worth and willing to make a deal to get it out of the warehouse so he can get new stock in it's place. I'd start at the low end of the spectrum, it's far better to be negotiated up, than to try to negotiate down when you realize you've started too high.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2010 : 12:52:45

Start low. It is a buyers market right now for boats.

We bought our 2000 C250WK in fall 2006 for $20k. It came with a trailer, Honda 9.9, speed/depth, VHS, wheel steering, AutoHelm (we removed and sold), bimini, hatch cover, window shades, carpet (we removed), cockpit and catbird seat cushions. The boat was in very good condition and came with VC17M bottom paint which is perfect for our fresh water lake (but not for David's salt water berth

).

Let us know how it goes. We love our C250 and use it for day sailing and 2-3 week cruises in the San Juans.

Edited by - on

windsong
Captain

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USA
318 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2010 : 13:03:05

I paid $40K, brand new in 2009, which included delivery, commissioning, bottom paint, blister protection, wheel steering, 9.8hp Tohatsu, cruising package (poptop, porta-pottie, stove) and a simple safety package. No trailer.
I overpaid.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

Members Avatar

USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2010 : 14:49:38

I paid around $21k for my 2003 in 2006. It had everything but a trailer and bimini.Good luck. They are great boats.
Steve A

Edited by - on

maha
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
5 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2010 : 09:53:22

THANKYOU for all your comments on my posting, "Should I buy this boat?" Yesterday I went out with my wife to check out local marinas and happily found a whole fleet of Catalinas, including five 250's! We both felt that the 250 is so beautiful! There were also several Capis (22' and 26'), so we could almost literally do a side-by-side comparison. The 250 won out primarily due to cabin size in both of our minds. So, my next step is to pin down exactly what features are on the boat, including paint, and make an offer. I'm thinking of offering $24K and plan to go up if necessary to $28K max, based upon what appears to be a consensus of the feedback on the value of the boat that I received from all of you.

Can you give me further details on the association's online discount for outboard motors?

I would like to close for now with a big, heartfelt "thankyou" to you all. I will definitely update you on developments.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 [url="http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2006/Catalina-250-Wb-2090152/Naples/FL/United-States"]2006 25' Catalina 250 WB in Florida[/url]for $22,990

I realize this one is a water ballast, but the prices should be close. Some will say the WB is worth more, others will say the opposite. I'd think them about the same in any case. This boat has been dry-sailed. That is, stored out of the water between sails. So, the bottom will likely be nearly as pristine as the one your looking at. It also has a tiller, not a wheel. The wheel adds to the price. The teak and holly also adds value.

The need for a motor will add ~ $2k to your total. If you plan to store it in the water, the cost of barrier coating and bottom painting can be substantial so you'll need to factor that in.

[url="http://www.nadaguides.com/default.aspx?LI=1-24-38-5697-0-0-0&l=1&w=24&p=38&f=5698&m=10351&d=1600236617&y=2006&ml=C&gc=MR>c=MR"]The NADA price guide[/url] says this boat, used, has an average retail price of around $20k. This does not include the trailer so, add $4-$5k for that.

So, I'd guess this boat would sell used for somewhere between $25k and $28k. I might offer him someting in that range and see what happens. The fact that it sat in his warehouse for 4 years or so would suggest it depreciated less than a boat that's been sailed but, it still depreciated. He got use out of it, you shouldn't pay for his use of the boat, regardless of purpose. Besides, if he's a dealer, it's likely he didn't pay retail. Maybe you could ask to see his invoice and go from there.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2010 : 10:48:05

One more thought for your negotiations... It sounds like the dealer is pricing the boat based on its lack of use. There's some merit to that, but like many other things, a four-year-old boat is a four-year-old boat. Some day when you want to sell it, it'll be a 2006--caveats will not apply.

Good luck!

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

Members Avatar

USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2010 : 13:20:07

[quote]Originally posted by maha
 Can you give me further details on the association's online discount for outboard motors?

Bob, joining our Association allows your to receive an additional $50 off, along with other discounts. We would love to bring you aboard!
Steve Auerbach, Treasurer

Edited by - on

maha
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
5 Posts

Response Posted - 06/29/2010 : 15:58:29

I'm reporting back on the 250WK deal about which so many members responded with most helpful, sage advice. My wife and I saw the boat last Friday, made an offer, and bought her on the spot. She is a 2006 boat #882. Neither boat nor trailer have ever seen the water. Mast, boom, sails are still in their original shipping wrappers. The dealer threw in a bimini (he wasn't sure what manufacturer and size would fit--any input on this?), life-lne cushions, and anti-foulant paint of my choice for a total sales price of $29K.
Like all new boat owners I am now in the position of needing to buy all of the things not included with a new boat like outboard motor, life jackets, safety gear, solar-panel ket, anchor kit, fenders, lines, etc. I understood from an earlier post here that association members can get a discount on some of this gear. How does this work and do you have any suggestions on where to shop (online?) for this equipment?
I appreciate any help navigating through the rest of these "purchase" waters. Also, I would really appreciate input on the best anti-foulant paint to use for sometimes warm fresh water. The locals with whom I consulted recommend using the following Pettit products: dewaxer, 120-grit light sanding, sandless primer (1 coat), Vivid antifoulant (2 coats)--mixing nominally 1 part black to 4 parts blue to match the Catalina navy-blue water stripe and locating the antifoulant line 2" below the water stripe using 2" wide 3M blue tape.
I think that I'm ready now to join the association of amazingly helpful mates! Thank you all :-)
Maha

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/29/2010 : 16:11:53

You saved $5,000! Welcome to the wonderful world of the C250.

It is also terrific that your wife is excited about this and part of the decision. Having a spouse who likes to sail adds a great deal to the enjoyment.

Researching what to buy for the boat is a great learning experience.

We use VC17M on our bottom. Generally, local knowledge is the best bet.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2010 : 09:57:14

I wouldn't worry about mixing the bottom paint colors. I doubt seriously if anyome will notice that your bottom paint is a slightly different blue than your waterline stripe. Others have recommended using a different color, such as red, for the first coat so you can tell easily when the top coat, in your case blue, is wearing thin. VC17M is a good choice. I'm on an inland lake and have had good luck with Interlux Ultra, finishing our 3rd year with this paint.

BYW, Defender.com had a sale on Interlux Ultra-Kote about a week or so ago, a gallon for $75, normally $199. I bought 2 gallons. If I had not gotten such a good buy, I might have switched to VC17M.

Edited by - dmpilc on 06/30/2010 10:29:50

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