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Roller furling- how much does it kill speed?

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EUSJIM
1st Mate

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32 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/01/2010 : 21:55:34

I know that a roller furling will force a dacron sail. I get tired of changing sails. How much will this kill my speed?

Jim Oursler
Capri 25
Hull 181
Ray Hubbard
Rockwall TX

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joearcht
Navigator

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USA
241 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2010 : 05:34:27

I'm not so sure about the dacron only sail. I race against a J-80 that has roller furling and uses mylar sails. I don't think he has any problem rolling his sails up as he does it every time he deploys his spinnaker. Now the principal difference in our rigs is the J-80 is a fractional rig and does not run as large a sail as my Capri 155 genoa, so it has less to spool up. As far as killing speed, will you have to re-cut your sail at the masthead and tack to allow for the roller furling fittings? You shouldn't lose much effective sail area I would think, but it is something to consider. The only other drawback I'm aware of is that of sail shape. If your sail is fully deployed I don't think the roller furling will have much effect on sail shape, but if you attempt to "reef" your genoa by spooling some of your sail in, then you will destroy sail shape and thus maximum power for the sail. Then again, if its blowing hard enough for you to down size the genoa you may NOT need as good of a sail shape. That's a question I'm curious about also. Let us know anything you learn if you decide to experiment, I've pondered this question myself a few times. I sure can't afford to give up any speed to that J-80, but I'm jealous of the ease with which he handles his spinnaker deployments.

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SailCO26
Captain

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Response Posted - 07/02/2010 : 07:38:59

Roller furling wont limit you to dacron sails (Joe's correct, the J/80 rolls racing sails just fine). However you dont see kevlar/mylar rolled very often because people who are serious enough to drop big $ on headsails rarely use roller furling.

In addition to the changes Joe mentioned, you'll also need the foot of the sail recut to raise the clew quite a bit in order to roll the sail evenly - losing a good amount of sail area in the process. Your PHRF rating will be based on the LP of the sail, not the total area. So for a 155% roller you'll have the same rating as a 155% decksweeper but significantly less sail area. If you're lucky enough to race OD (basically limited to Wayzata YC in MN), you'll be at a disadvantage over the boats with no furler and full cut sails.

Car placement will change radically as well, moving a good bit farther back than normal. This could potentially put you near the back of the inner/aft track, with no room to back farther to twist the sail off. If you roll reef instead of twisting (I wouldnt recommend that...), you'll have room to move the cars forward as you reef, but only for a short distance - unless you have a 2nd car setup on the outside/fwd tracks and move the sheets, but if it's honking enough you're reefing the sail you likely wont be looking to make that change mid-race.

Yes, J/80s race with roller furling. But bear in mind that the roller is a Class requirement, not an option. Also, the J/80 headsail is a non-overlapping jib and is more a balancing sail than a powering sail. I crew frequently on a J/80, and quite a few times in much more wind than I'd care to take my 29yo CP25 out in - we've never "reefed" the headsail. It's all out upwind and all in downwind.

If you're not racing, dont worry about it. Roll away...
:)

My $0.02
Jim

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leebitts
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122 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2010 : 20:33:28

When I bought my capri 25 3 years ago. I put a roller furler on it immediately, and bought a new mainsail that has lugs instead of a rope. I adopted the 110% jib to the roller. When not racing and single handling the boat, the 110% jib on the roller is just fine. When racing I use my mylar 155 or 140. I do not use the roller, so I did not cut these sails. Because of the mast head rig, I had to reposition the spinnaker halyard to exit more to the side of the mast (so that it did not get wrapped in the roller). I'm trying this year to pay more attention to rig tuning and such. I measured my mast rake at just over 9", the tuning guide on this forum says 12 to 15" is desireable. Other than back stay tension I'm not sure how to increase this. Any suggestions?

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joearcht
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241 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2010 : 05:50:12

I set my rake with the forestay while the mast was down. I precisely measured the pin to pin with the turnbuckle (non furling setup) set to 31'-10". I made note of the turnbuckle setting so I could replicate it when the mast was back up later. I confirmed rake with the weight on the end of the main halyard trick.
I then set the pre-bend with the lower back stays and measured it with one of the jib halyards tied to the base of the mast and pulled tight. I'm not sure I absolutely understand the pre-bend yet, but this set up provided a noticeable speed increase around the race course, particularly when beating so I haven't tinkered with it anymore. My Main shrouds are set pretty tight and balanced with a Loos Gauge, but I've not really examined or played with them much to see if I can improve. The Elliott/Pattison Sailmakers website (www.epsails.com) has a tuning guide that I've studied for answers and hints. That's about the sum total of my knowledge, still learning with every race :)

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SailCO26
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2010 : 08:10:04

Rake is typically set/determined by the length of the forestay, before the mast is stepped, then fine-tuned once the mast is up using the forestay turnbuckle.

How much rake you want depends primarily on the cut of the main, thus who the loft is. EP will be different from North will be different from Haarstick will be different from...

The first place to check would be the tuning guide from the sail loft, then progress from there.

Also, the backstay really wont change your "rake" - it will mostly impact forestay sag (kinda-sorta like rake), then mast bend.

Jim

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.