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Batteries

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unclaimed baggage
1st Mate

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USA
45 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/06/2010 : 15:21:29

I have West Marine 2003 batteries in the boat and three month ago the got dried out on the charger. It happened again yesterday. The locals tell me no more than three years on a set of batts than replace. I was looking at Batteries Plus cuase thaer are cheaper and sealed.

Drum roll.........

opinions please

Eric F Martinez
1985 Fix keel, Tall rig

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2010 : 16:26:55

Go to Walmart or Sam's Club.

Edited by - on

jhinton
Navigator

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USA
123 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2010 : 17:44:42

Absolutely agree. I found Energizer group 27 marine deep cycle batteries at Sam's Club for $69 each.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2010 : 18:34:08

My newest Walmart battery replaced one that was at least 6 and probably 8 years old. I generally expect batteries to last 6-7 years, but they sometimes exceed expectations. You might need a new charger. What are you using?

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5362 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2010 : 20:06:59

I checked on a Walmart group 27 battery and a Die Hard from Sears. I was surprised that the Sears battery was under $100, while the Walmart battery was somewhere around $85. You pays your money and you takes your choice.

I'm currently on year 3 of my Walmart battery, and it is not showing any signs of fatigue. We'll see how it passes the coming winter....

Battery chargers should provide at least two stages: bulk charge at high current & voltage and absorbtion stage which limits current. Three stage chargers are the best, with a float charge to top off the battery as it self discharges.

A single stage charger, without current limiting, will overcharge the battery and boil off the acid electrolyte from the battery cells. If the level gets below the top of the lead plates, they can warp and short out. This is the most common way of killing a battery.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2010 : 20:25:08

I once read that there are really only a handful of battery manufacturers and they distribute them under the various major brands. I don't know how true that is but I tend to belive it. With that in mind, I'll stick with the Walmart battery.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2010 : 20:34:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The locals tell me no more than three years on a set of batts than replace.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Only if you're mistreating them.

What Bruce said! Cared for properly (not overcharging or over-discharging) a battery should last you many years. The one that came to me with Passage was I have no idea how old, but was as good when I sold her six years later as when I bought her. My current car battery (same thing) is seven years old and very healthy. My two current boat batteries are in their fourth seasons and are flawless. If you're charging off your outboard, I'd have the voltage regulator replaced. If from a charger, I'd $h!+can it and buy a quality three-stage charger. Batteries are usually not the problem--charging sources more often are.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 09/06/2010 20:44:35

captainstuart
Deckhand

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USA
6 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2010 : 08:21:07

I suggest you consider not replace anything until you fix the problem.

A well set up charge system should not "bake" the batteries dry. Make sure you have the correct battery tender / charger settings and wiring. Something must be causing it to overcharge the batteries to dry them out.

It would be best to fix that issue before new batteries or you'll be buying new ones again.

And yes there are only a hand full of battery manufactures, and the batteries are labeled for each separate retailer/brand. When selecting the correct marine battery be sure you get the deep cycle amps per hour you need for your electrical needs.

Happy sailing!

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3448 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2010 : 09:18:05

Agree with above recent comments - Batteries should last over 3 years if properly charged and cared for regarding checking water levels. A decent battery charger or solar controller will keep batteries fully charged and will stop charging when fully charged. But flooded battery types still need to have water levels checked periodically since water can evaporate from normal environmental conditions. I have a solar panel and controller for my two batteries. The batteries are from the PO who had them at least a year prior to when I bought the boat in mid-2005, so my batteries are 5+ years old and still SAT. However, I check and wind up adding water about three times during the year with 2 of the checks surrounding the Spring/Summer warmer weather times of the year.

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unclaimed baggage
1st Mate

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USA
45 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2010 : 13:05:30

Thanks for the info, I will check walmart. I am sure that I neglected the battery water and if messed up the plates the first time around. i usually leave it on shore power and over the summer I was not out there due to heat, lack of wind, and laziness. I know that there is newer charger in there but was installed by a previous owner.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4021 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2010 : 13:55:46

Just make sure you get a deep cycle battery. A regular starting battery won't last with the constant re-charging/draining/re-charging... And yes look at your charger to make sure its a 3 stage and not a single and go check the boat once in a while. A dry battery hooked up to a charger... well I'm amazed you didn't get a call from the fire dept.

Edited by - islander on 09/07/2010 14:02:04

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2010 : 14:35:10

Read the Ample Power Primer about how to care for batteries. www.amplepower.com, tech documents tab

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 09/08/2010 : 06:09:40

<center>Battery Longevity (Flooded Cell)</center>
Here's a link back to a discussion in 2006 about premature battery death from low electrolyte levels when purchased: [[url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=12122"]Battery Electrolyte Levels[/url]]. I have since then more than confirmed my hypothesis that initial under filling leads to premature death, and initial topping up with acid leads to long life and much less water consumption.

-- Leon Sisson

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5362 Posts

Response Posted - 09/08/2010 : 18:31:47

Hear, hear. Leon is correct.
In the past, when you bought a battery, it would be shipped dry. A bottle of electrolyte (battery acid) would be shipped along with it. The purchaser would add electrolyte until it covered the plates, and came up to a fill line. Then the purchaser was expected to fully charge and top off the battery's charge.

At some point, this was thought to be too complicated for the average customer, so manufacturers started shipping full batteries. According to several sources on line, typically new batteries are shipped with low electrolyte levels.

If you purchase a new battery, you'd be well advised to check the level. If you find it to be low, return the battery to the store. If you have used the battery for a while before noticing it is low, you can add: DISTILLED WATER ONLY!!!!!!!

Do not use tap water, as it has chlorine, salts, minerals and other impurities that will shortly kill the battery (even a newer one). You can purchase distilled water at auto shops, or check bottled water labels for distilled water. Don't use any water that has any trace of minerals, so all the listed minerals should read ZERO on the label. Frequently, bottled water contains additives of calcium, magnesium, potassium and sodium.

These should not be used to top off the battery level. Distilled ONLY!

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 09/08/2010 : 19:49:32

You can usually buy distilled water by the gallon at groceries. I is usually with the other gallon jugs of water or near baby stuff and is clearly labeled.

Edited by - on

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1773 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2010 : 19:36:45

Three comments -- first -- regarding batteries, pricing is different depending on where you are and how much competition BUT if you can wait, West has sales as do other places and you may be able to reduce your cost. When I bought mine three years ago West was on sale and the cheapest. Second, batteries should lat for far more than three years. The rule of thumb is batteries should be able to survive five compete recharges and/or five years MINIMUM. Third, is you seem to have a route cause problem in the recharge system. Buy new batteries but make sure you get the cause resolved or it will be very expensive replacing batteries regardless of their price!

Edited by - on

unclaimed baggage
1st Mate

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USA
45 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2010 : 07:32:45

I found walmart to be teh cheapest by had i just put new batteries yesterday. When I pilled the old ones out thw seal on the caps was bad. I am thinking that they may have cooked via evaporation.

The Walmart batteries were $55 compared to west marine at $119.

Thanks you everyone for your help.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5362 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2010 : 18:10:52

Eric
Did you replace the charging system with a three stage charger?
That could have been the root cause problem all along.
Otherwise, you could cook the new battery.

Edited by - Voyager on 09/11/2010 18:12:04

triley
Captain

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USA
251 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2010 : 20:15:39

I cooked a battery many years ago with a solar charger. Surprised me, but I hadn't realized how powerful that flexible solar charger was. I have used it since on a two battery bank with no problem.

Edited by - on

NCBrew
Captain

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USA
338 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2010 : 06:50:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 Eric
Did you replace the charging system with a three stage charger?
That could have been the root cause problem all along.
Otherwise, you could cook the new battery.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Anyone have a recommedation for a good 3 stage charger.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2010 : 10:38:02

I have a Prosport from WM, but I think any of the major brands are fine- Xantrex, Guest, and several others.

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Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2010 : 08:03:50

One thing to check if you are purchasing a new charger is if you can run electronics while the charger is engaged. I remember a post from a while back where a member fried his Guest charger due to running his electronics while the charger was activated. I know it was a Guest because I have an older Guest that does not have this problem. No idea if the other chargers have this limitation.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2010 : 17:33:44

I have a Xantrex 10TB. Use it all the time with the A/C running. It's a 3 stage and works great.

http://www.xantrex.com/power-products/battery-chargers/truecharge.aspx

Here's the owners manual. It may answer some questions.

http://www.xantrex.com/documents/Battery-Chargers/TRUECharge/Truecharge10TB(445-0091-01-01_rev-2).pdf

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3448 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2010 : 20:27:58

I have a Guest 5 + 5 Amps for charging two batteries independently. When visiting a marina, the charger automatically kicks in as soon as dockside electric is hooked up. I have so far not expereinced any issues with the charger when running loads on the boat while the charger was also charging. Perhaps, it has to do with just how much of a load you are drawing relative to the charging capacity ? I generally only have a light or two on in the cabin and they are now LEDs. I may also have had the deck light on which draws a little bit under an amp.

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