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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Halyards to the cockpit

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 11:55:34

Frank, are you saying just get a couple of big guys and muscle it up? If so, with all your experience and all of my respect as a relative newcomer, you're just flat wrong on this one. Far too many things could go wrong even if somebody just gets a cramp. If nobody dies, you're still looking at a significance cost of mast replacement. Safety tools such as A-frames and/or gin poles are working smarter, not harder.

Besides, most of us don't have a couple of guys the size of offensive linemen hanging around. That stick is damned heavy the first half of the way up.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 13:04:07

I respect your sentiment but obviously we disagree. Quality of help is certainly important, I guess therein lies the issue. In 20 years of sailing on a lake it has never taken more than a few minutes to round up anywhere from a couple to a half a dozen guys happy to help. I am very lucky to sail at a sailboat only yacht club where there are no marina services so everyone helps everyone. I have never seen a mast dropped or cause any damage to anything. Now last year there was the guy who used the wrong size ball on his Beneteau 28 and as he backed under our crane the entire rig lifted off the hitch and went backwards off the crane pad into the water, that was amazing to see!

(As I have said before, if I were a trailer sailor with no expectation of any help anywhere I went I would have the best jim-cracky A-frame ever.)

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 13:12:57

John, you made me wonder what my old log-in count was.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 13:17:15

almost 7500 total, a rookie compared to Dave.

Edited by - on

Slingerland
1st Mate

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USA
96 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 14:03:13

Frank's statement " Quality of help is certainly important, I guess therein lies the issue." exactly hits the nail on the head. I have no physical help other than a 19 year old son, I can't get the boat on the hard, and therefore, lowering the mast is pretty much not an option... unless I want to hire the marina to do it and pay a lot of money for renting trailer and labor. Plus all the mast plates I've found so far will require drilling through the top anyway as the boltholes are not in the correct place.

Edited by - on

Mark Maxwell
Captain

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USA
329 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 14:42:42

I've lifted and lowered mine several times by hand, by myself. I'm 45 180lbs and 5'10" tall. (not superman by any means

) Now that's a standard mast with an early extrusion '1978'. The newer ones are much heavier. I could not do them by myself. I lifted from the bow to stern. Easier to walk up the forward hatch then to climb from cockpit seat to cabin top. There is also less stuff to hang up on.
Having said that, I now use my boom as a gin pole and mainsheet for mechanical adv.

Back to topic, I too think the best option is to use the mast plate it gives you more options with less drilling (much less) than mounted stand up blocks.

In the picture I only have the main and jib halyards led aft. They are led to a single clutch on each side. Winches are expensive, I saw these fore spar marlon winches for $50ea. at west marine and thought I'd give them a try.

They don't turn as nice as brass but they work just fine to tension the halyards.

Edited by - Mark Maxwell on 11/04/2010 14:55:13

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 14:44:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Slingerland
 Frank's statement " Quality of help is certainly important, I guess therein lies the issue." exactly hits the nail on the head. I have no physical help other than a 19 year old son, I can't get the boat on the hard, and therefore, lowering the mast is pretty much not an option... unless I want to hire the marina to do it and pay a lot of money for renting trailer and labor. Plus all the mast plates I've found so far will require drilling through the top anyway as the boltholes are not in the correct place.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Honestly, you might be putting the cart in front of the horse here. Take your boat out single handing as is. Get some kind of decent tiller tamer (Even bungee cords) and try it. Raising the sails isn't a huge deal and see how your rig works as is.

As far as modifications go, I'm pretty sure running your halyards aft can be done, unless you're married to the mast plate idea which is a good idea, without dropping your mast. If you need to drop your mast to add the mast plate, see if your marina has any cranes. I know my mast was pretty heavy but most of the weight was my 135 and roller furling gear. My marina has a couple of hand cranked cranes which really made it easy to put it back up.

If you get roller furling, which I strongly suggest, you're just down to one halyard anyways. Roller furling made a huge difference with my wife, no more hank ons and flaking sails on the dock. Now she's much more likely to come with me as it cuts the work more than in half.

There are many times I sail with just my head sail alone with a 135 on an inland lake. That makes single handing and putting up the boat a breeze.

As an aside, my signature picture? I was single handing. What a great day that was.

Edited by - PCP777 on 11/04/2010 15:10:44

Mark Maxwell
Captain

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USA
329 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 15:11:22

You could also replace the mast bolt with this

and this

Gives you 2 solid anchor points for block attachment.
Both sold here
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=108553& catalogId=10001& langId=-1& storeId=11151& storeNum=10102& subdeptNum=10161& classNum=10169
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=17753& catalogId=10001& langId=-1& storeId=11151& storeNum=10102& subdeptNum=10161& classNum=10169

Edited by - Mark Maxwell on 11/04/2010 15:17:00

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 17:26:24

Good idea, Mark. Just curious, would one of those eye bolts with a swivel block attached be strong enough to substitute for a deck organizer for the turn back to the cockpit (only one hole to drill on each side), or would the lateral forces be too much?
Of course, a deck organizer would give you at least 2 sheaves on each side to run 2 more lines aft.
I'll also second the thought that the mast plate is easy to install.

I can be there next week to help if you pay my travel costs!!

Edited by - dmpilc on 11/04/2010 17:33:05

Slingerland
1st Mate

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USA
96 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 17:38:01

Mark, those are interesting bolts. I'm still stuck in Atlanta until late tomorrow, I'll go to the marina when I get back and look at the existing bolts.

With or without the deck plate change, I still want turning blocks to the port and starboard sides... like David says, extra sheaves gives me room to grow. But David, sorry, can't afford your travel right now!

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 18:02:42

I hear ya, Howard.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 19:24:41

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Slingerland
 ...Plus all the mast plates I've found so far will require drilling through the top anyway as the boltholes are not in the correct place.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">They weren't correct on mine, so I had two more holes drilled to match the mast step. (I didn't have equipment that could dent that heavy stainless.)

However, Mark's replacement for the bolt through the mast step is a great idea--possibly satisfactory for as many as four swivel blocks.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 19:32:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 almost 7500 total, a rookie compared to Dave.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...but more knowledge and wisdom per post than mine, by a wide margin. My count is mostly lame attempts at humor or useless remarks like this one.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2010 : 07:47:26

Good thread.

I'll create a pdf from the final version that goes into the mainsheet and add to the tech area.

Paul

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2010 : 16:19:24

I'm coming to the conversation a little late. I have not owned any other sailboats except the one I have. It came equiped like so:

Internal halyards exit mast at base through block then to deck organizer back to cockpit. I later added rope clutch and winch.
If your halyards are not internal, it seems that it would not be that difficult to convert. Although, I don't have any idea what would be required at the mast head.

In regards to lowering your mast. You DO NOT NEED all the equipment that I use in the videos. You need only a-frame, block at stem, and a line to reach starboard winch. That is all.

Opps, However, my jib halyard is already running to cockpit.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2010 : 05:26:17

Wow! I missed some good convo on a couple of chronic items.

Raising the mast by hand - do-able with three people. SWMBO on the winch, 2 "normal" people on the mast. Set the mast in the step, pointing forward like a bowsprit. Run a halyard from the cleats on the mast to the mast head, then to a block temporarily attached to the traveller, then forward to the coaming winch. This is your safety line.

Normal people lift and SWMBO winches. The first bit of lift is easy, middle bit is tough, last bit is a breeze.

If you think that lifting is too hard, go out and buy a pair of 2x4's, and a handful of gate hinges. Put a gate hinge at the top and you have an instant A-Frame. We ahve been using this type of frame for a couple years. Jusy use big-ass hardware so there is a margin of safety, and pre-drill holes so the wood won't split.

The OP instslled our Deck Plate before we bought the boat so I can't speak to process there. I can speak to maintenance though. When installing, be sure to overdrill and epoxy. If you discover a leak, you will have to drop the mast to fix this one, which means doing it right the first time is prudent. Also, there is a wire under there for the mast lights. If you are considering getting that wire out of the deck, and into the cabin, you might want to run a hole now while you are already making swiss cheese out of your boat.

Finally, the forces on both the mast plate and the step are compression forces, meaning that the mast pushes down on them. The shrouds and stays should be taking all the lateral loading and be in tension. This means that a poor installation, while unfortunate and ugly, won't affect sailing performance a great deal (Assuming you keep the mast facing something close to forward when you are done). Just make sure its watertight or you will regret it. I did the waterproofing last summer.

Normal disclaimers...

Edited by - Prospector on 11/06/2010 05:30:23

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