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AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/03/2011 : 17:10:55

What PFD would you recommend for a 71 year old female non-swimmer, make and model? Thanks.

Frank Farmer
Long Beach, CA
aa.diver@verizon.net
http://mysite.verizon.net/aa.diver

PRETTY PENNY
'01 C-250 WK, Hull #558

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2011 : 18:22:52

For coastal cruising? I have the WM auto-inflate with harness. That would probably be my first choice. However, the harness version is significantly heavier than the non-harness. So, you might take her along to try it on.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2011 : 18:54:45

I'll second an autoinflatable with harness. It'll be safe and the most comfortable. If it gets really rough, tether her harness to a through bolted deck fitting.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2011 : 19:41:44

If the harness model is bothersome, get the model without it and a separate harness and tether. That's what we use, and it really isn't a problem to don the harness when desired. If she doesn't mind the harness, go with the previous recommendation. She really needs to go with you to try different models - there are variations in fit and comfort between the manufacturers. Wear each one around the store and do some range of motion and stretching - it needs to be comfortable to be worn.

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2011 : 20:19:14

What's your collective opinion of non-inflatable vests with a separate harness, not dependent on CO2 inflation?

Edited by - AADIVER on 02/03/2011 20:20:21

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2011 : 20:22:25

The USCG recommends inflatables for swimmers only. Most likely because if there were a malfunction with the auto-inflate mechanism, the wearer would have to remain calm enough to manually inflate the vest.

From the USCG web site...

Lifejacket Flotation

There are three basic kinds of lifejacket flotation in the five types of lifejackets with the following characteristics:

Inherently Buoyant (primarily Foam)

•Adult, Youth, Child, and Infant sizes
•For swimmers & non-swimmers
•Wearable & throwable styles
•Some designed for water sports

Inflatable

•The most compact
•Sizes only for adults
•Only recommended for swimmers
•Wearable styles only
•Some with the best in-water performance

Hybrid (Foam & Inflation)

•Reliable
•Adult, Youth, and Child sizes
•For swimmers & non-swimmers
•Wearable styles only
•Some designed for water sports

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2011 : 21:11:24

SWMBO and I (and the kids) have non-inflatable PFD's. I still have teh same one from about 1995(ish) Prolly time to replace it. SWMBO replaced hers at the boatshow last year. After trying on a variety, she settled on Salus one, that is contoured for wimmen. Apparently many of teh manly ones squish boobs, which is uncomfortable. Who knew!

Anyway, I second teh reccomendation that you guys go someplace with a wall of PFDs and start trying them on. A boat store man not be best for this, some I have been to only carry the most popular, adn some push the more stowable (left under a seat until forgotten) ones. Kayak and Canoe stores have a huge variety for active people, who actually wear them.

Edited by - on

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2011 : 21:20:13

I too prefer the non inflatable (although I have a West inflatable that I occasionally wear) because they are fool proof and while a bit more bulky, lighter in weight and therefore usually more comfortable. Again, fit and finish is a personal preference so I would take the wearer to try them on.

I wear the inflatable when it is oppressively hot and humid -- and even then have changed into the non-inflatable when the conditions have deteriorated. I forget offhand the brand/model of the un-inflatable but it is designed for daysailing/racing -- the same type my son wears while racing Lasers but my size.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2011 : 21:31:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 Kayak and Canoe stores have a huge variety for active people, who actually wear them.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Excellent advice! But a stop at a WM store wouldn't hurt, too. Kayak/canoe stores tend to lean toward "active user" (Type III) PFDs. Your non-swimming candidate might feel more secure in a serious "offshore" Type I vest. Try some of each. (Too bad you can't stop into Defender here in Waterford, CT...)

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 02/04/2011 09:43:51

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2011 : 21:37:07

Google "pfd,women" and you will get a long listing of options. Check out vests for those who paddle kayaks, should be very comfortable. Have her try on several.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2011 : 09:00:18

Our kayak vest are great while sitting in a kayak, but I wouldn't care to wear mine all day while up and around on a sailboat. Chris sometimes wears her non-inflatable, especially when it's cooler, and we both gravitate towards them if conditions really deteriorate. Just like inflatables, you really need to wear them to check for fit and comfort. We each have 3 pfd's (plus paddling vests) for different activities and conditions aboard Pearl and they cover four brands for good fits.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2011 : 09:45:35

I think non-inflatable might be the right choice if she's a non-swimmer, afraid of the water, and a bit frail. But the downside is temperature. A non-inflatable staying on for the whole trip on a sunny, Southern California day could be so uncomfortably warm as to result in no second trip (or heat stroke.

) I think it could also serve to exaggerate the dangers(fears) in her mind. Demonstrate how the auto-inflate works by throwing one overboard. That will calm some of the fears about it failing.

BTW, Frank, how's the new boat?

Edited by - John Russell on 02/04/2011 09:48:50

jhinton
Navigator

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USA
123 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2011 : 06:32:24

For a non-swimmer, I wouldn't even think about an inflatable vest. Inflatables are wonderful but I have personally seen them fail to auto-inflate.

On the other end of the spectrum, how about a good old, old fashion type-1 US Navy PFD?

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2011 : 07:43:37

In my opinion, the overheating in your PFD thing is overhyped. I have sat out in 90° F drifters while being burnt to a crisp, and have gotten warm, but not so bad that I thought I was going to die. We have that sort of weather for most of Late july and early August, and wear our PFD's everytime we leave the dock. I know I am in Canada and you are in Cali, but our hot, humid, sticky crappy days are really hot humid and sticky. We do drink a lot of water on those days. Maybe that is the difference??

A good PFD will vent. It will have mesh sections under your arms and likely on your back. It will have the foam compressed into an area that takes as little space as possible. And thefoam will be formed such that it breathes. Proper fit means it will neither be tight or loose, and will stay put in the water. With a good PFD and proper fit, your comfort is much better, and heat is less of an issue.

At least that has been my experience.

Re-reading this it sounds like a lot of attitude - it isn't meant to be, just my experience after years of canoeing, sailing, and generally being out on the water wearing a foam PFD. It would be interesting to monitor core temperatures of a person wearing a foamie and a person wearing an inflatable and see how much difference there actually is.

ETA - I would try these. We have had really good luck with the Salus lineup. Well vented, well built, and the ergonomics work well. http://ca.binnacle.com/p679/SALUS-ABACUS-SAIL-VEST-PFD/product_info.html

Edited by - Prospector on 02/08/2011 07:46:20

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2011 : 07:44:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jhinton
 For a non-swimmer, I wouldn't even think about an inflatable vest. Inflatables are wonderful but I have personally seen them fail to auto-inflate.

On the other end of the spectrum, how about a good old, old fashion type-1 US Navy PFD?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">You're right that inflatables aren't 100% foolproof, but they are still very reliable, and a pfd that is so uncomfortable that you can't or won't wear it is no help at all. An inflatable pfd is like an air bag in a car. Even though safety belts are in place in a car and safer, many people refuse to use them.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 02/08/2011 07:45:39

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2011 : 08:17:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 An inflatable pfd is like an air bag in a car.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

An inherently bouyant pfd is like the seat belt.

Edited by - on

jhinton
Navigator

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USA
123 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2011 : 08:42:22

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2011 : 09:11:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 ...a pfd that is so uncomfortable that you can't or won't wear it is no help at all...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">However, we're talking about "a 71-year-old non-swimmer." Jarred and I are suggesting that she might feel more secure, and therefore more comfortable, in a PFD that feels like it really will take care of her rather than one that everyone promises her, through the marvels of modern technology, will probably take care of her. A secure feeling might be the most important thing to a "senior" non-swimmer in a "tippy" boat on ocean swells. But only she really knows.

Hell--get both--you can't have too many PFDs or types of PFDs.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 02/08/2011 09:13:15

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2011 : 10:16:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 ...she might feel more secure, and therefore more comfortable, in a PFD that feels like it really will take care of her rather than one that everyone promises her, through the marvels of modern technology, will probably take care of her.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Nicely put, Dave. In addition to relying on the marvels of modern technology, the pfd wearer is also relying on someone to meticulously maintain that pfd according to the manufacturers recommended specifications. I'm willing to bet the vast majority of inflatable pfd's in use today are not getting the manufacturers recommended maintenance and inspections performed on them.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2011 : 10:40:13

I agree that the wearer must be comfortable with the type. The performance of the pfd is very important on very rare occasions, the psychology is a important all of the time. Try them on and get the quality pfd that makes her feel secure. Chris strapped on her foam pfd the moment she stepped aboard Pearl when we first sea-trialed her because she didn't know the boat and didn't feel secure. A lot of miles, some heavier weather, rolling seas, and a near knockdown later she has confidence in the boat and usually wears an inflatable. Anxiety doesn't add pleasure to sailing.

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