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DS-1 Depth Sounder

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65Roses
1st Mate

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26 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/20/2011 : 10:08:11

Need to replace and the owners manual doesn't tell me what size hole was required to mount the sensor in the hull. Boat is in storage so I can't get to it to pull out the old sensor and currently shopping for replacement. Any recommendations on depth sounders is appreciated and if you know what size hole was drilled that would be great too. Thanks to all.

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2011 : 11:45:18

FWIW today I would not drill a hole in my boat for a depth sounder. The sounders today will shot through the hull, if mounted properly, with no problem and are just a accurate. If you don't have one a GPS with depth sounder would be my choice. As for the old sounder I just cut the cable and leave it, assuming no leaks.

Edited by - frog0911 on 02/20/2011 11:47:00

Boomeroo
Navigator

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Australia
129 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2011 : 18:36:20

Hi, totally agree ,A year back I fitted an Eagle CUDA 350i Fishfinder depth sounder with GPS includes a built in map . This gives me speed and depth as a set readout but can give map ( included Australia )and type of bottom (Mud etc),anchor watch. time to destination ,av speed , routes and so on
About $350 aus
Very easy installation just epoxied the transducer to the hull behind the keel.
fantastic

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2011 : 19:46:29

We use an Eagle Cuda 168 (current model is an Eagle Cuda 300). The transducer is attached the the hull just behind the keel using a glob of wax from a plumber's toilet wax ring. Shape a small section of the wax into a patty being careful to not get air bubbles in it, press the patty into the hull and the transducer into the patty. Works great and the whole thing is less that $100 if you catch the Cuda on sale. Works great!

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2011 : 20:58:05

Edited by - on

ReluctantRookie
Deckhand

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23 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2011 : 18:44:33

Could use any advice on how to tweak an installation of a Garmin 140 fishfinder depth sounder.

http://www.amazon.ca/Garmin-010-00460-00-FishFinder-140/dp/B000ES8AWI

Plan was to follow the advice above in not using an actual through hull (no hole in the boat) and using toilet wax to mount the transducer in hull.

The unit works by lowering transducer into the water, but after trying a couple of locations (under the quarter birth, and in the compartment under the forward dinette seat, next to the swing keel seat.

Neither seem to produce any measurement.

Here is a picture: https://picasaweb.google.com/116145212138167555773/BoatJobPics#5622708598476319762

Any thoughts?

I also recently finished a keel pin replacement with help of several regulars on this board, and plan to soon post my story. Thanks to all that helped with their very useful comments.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2011 : 19:04:43

It appears you don't have enough wax to make a good air free seal under the transducer(there appears to be an air gap under the right end of the transducer). It should look like the picture Larry posted just above your last post. Don't be afraid of using too much wax, just be sure you push the transducer down most of the way into the wax without getting any air under it.

Edited by - on

ReluctantRookie
Deckhand

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23 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2011 : 19:42:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 It appears you don't have enough wax to make a good air free seal under the transducer(there appears to be an air gap under the right end of the transducer). It should look like the picture Larry posted just above your last post. Don't be afraid of using too much wax, just be sure you push the transducer down most of the way into the wax without getting any air under it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thanks GaryB will give more wax a go.

Edited by - on

ReluctantRookie
Deckhand

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23 Posts

Response Posted - 07/04/2011 : 02:31:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ReluctantRookie
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 It appears you don't have enough wax to make a good air free seal under the transducer(there appears to be an air gap under the right end of the transducer). It should look like the picture Larry posted just above your last post. Don't be afraid of using too much wax, just be sure you push the transducer down most of the way into the wax without getting any air under it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thanks GaryB will give more wax a go.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Tried some more wax, and another location. Still no luck. Here's a bad picture, but it shows that there was plenty of contact with the wax.

https://picasaweb.google.com/116145212138167555773/BoatProjectPics?authkey=Gv1sRgCO283aHh1vqVkgE#5625425698231063362

How picky is the fit? Should I be getting ANY reading just holding the transducer directly against the hull? I understand we are going for minimal air pockets but does that just affect accuracy or getting any reading at all?

I'm a bit puzzled here. Could it have something to do with the type of sounder?

Thanks for any input.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 07/04/2011 : 08:24:30

You are really going for zero air pockets and a very thin layer of wax underneath. Significant air will make it not work at all. Make a ring of wax or modeling clay on the hull in your chosen location and fill it with water. Set the transducer in the water and it should work; if it doesn't, try other locations.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 07/04/2011 : 09:20:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ReluctantRookie
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ReluctantRookie
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 It appears you don't have enough wax to make a good air free seal under the transducer(there appears to be an air gap under the right end of the transducer). It should look like the picture Larry posted just above your last post. Don't be afraid of using too much wax, just be sure you push the transducer down most of the way into the wax without getting any air under it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thanks GaryB will give more wax a go.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Tried some more wax, and another location. Still no luck. Here's a bad picture, but it shows that there was plenty of contact with the wax.

https://picasaweb.google.com/116145212138167555773/BoatProjectPics?authkey=Gv1sRgCO283aHh1vqVkgE#5625425698231063362

How picky is the fit? Should I be getting ANY reading just holding the transducer directly against the hull? I understand we are going for minimal air pockets but does that just affect accuracy or getting any reading at all?

I'm a bit puzzled here. Could it have something to do with the type of sounder?

Thanks for any input.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Based on your picture I think I figured out the problem. You're supposed to stick it to the hull not the cabin top!

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 07/04/2011 : 13:11:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ReluctantRookie
 ...Tried some more wax, and another location. Still no luck...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I'm suspicious you have another problem--have you tried adjusting the gain? And pardon an even dumber question, but is the boat in the water?

Regarding air, I'd suggest shaping the glob of wax like a ball and pushing the puck down on that, so any air is forced out to the sides both above and below the wax and not trapped in the middle as you push down.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2011 : 13:48:16

If the cord is long enough, Hang it over the side in the water. It should take a reading then.

Edited by - on

ReluctantRookie
Deckhand

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23 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2011 : 00:06:12

Thanks for all the helpful ideas. I'll get a chance to play with this more this coming weekend but in brief:
- yup boat is actually IN the water. Doesn't hurt to ask.
- have tried the dangle in the water and it works fine that way. Get a reading right away.
- have played with the gain when trying through hull with no real results, although may have been 'playing' incorrectly.

My favorite though was definitely:
>Based on your picture I think I figured out the problem. You're supposed to stick it to the hull not the cabin top!
- got a solid out loud chuckle out of that one. ;)

Could be I need to start with a new batch of wax and focus on being air free. Although I have tried sitting it in a small puddle that is in the bilge under the sink unit, and that didn't seem to help. Will try more air free focus in more locations and see how it goes.

Any chance I have a rare (like the Sasquatch) balsa core cat 25? Hull number is something like 2461 (can't recall at the moment for sure, but in that area).

Edited by - on

TCurran
Admiral

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USA
588 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2011 : 02:47:17

R/R, I also had no luck with the ball of wax (maybe it's a '84 SK thing). I ended up getting a transducer that mounted into another piece that is "glued" to the hull and then filled with mineral oil.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2011 : 20:36:04

Try placing the transducer under the V-berth. That's where many of us have ours mounted and it seems to work good.

Also, I agree you should try a new piece of wax. Just cut off about a quarter of the ring, set it against the hull and shove the transducer down into it until there's about 1/16 to 1/8 if an inch of wax remaining under the transducer. While pushing it down wiggle it very slightly so you get a good seal with no air gaps.

Once it's mounted and working properly you can go back and cut off any excess wax leaving about 1/2 to 3/4" sticking out around the edges of the transducer.

That should get you going.

Edited by - on

ReluctantRookie
Deckhand

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23 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2011 : 23:37:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 Try placing the transducer under the V-berth. That's where many of us have ours mounted and it seems to work good.

Also, I agree you should try a new piece of wax. Just cut off about a quarter of the ring, set it against the hull and shove the transducer down into it until there's about 1/16 to 1/8 if an inch of wax remaining under the transducer. While pushing it down wiggle it very slightly so you get a good seal with no air gaps.

Once it's mounted and working properly you can go back and cut off any excess wax leaving about 1/2 to 3/4" sticking out around the edges of the transducer.

That should get you going.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thanks Gary will give that a try. That is the one place I haven't tried because that is the one place the cable doesn't reach from where I have the unit wired in(no major whole cut so far thankfully). But I'll pull it out and give that a go.

Cheers.

Edited by - on

NCBrew
Captain

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USA
338 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2011 : 09:07:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ReluctantRookie
 

I also recently finished a keel pin replacement with help of several regulars on this board, and plan to soon post my story. Thanks to all that helped with their very useful comments.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I am going to replace my swing keel cable and everything that goes with it. Please post the article. The boat will be on the hard. Any advice will be appreciated. Also can someone tell me how to get the keel safely on the ground and back up. I need to grind it clean to repaint it.

Edited by - NCBrew on 07/09/2011 09:10:08

ReluctantRookie
Deckhand

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23 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2011 : 21:44:54

So here's the update. GaryB you were bang on. The quaterbirth location did it. Took a bit of fiddling, but eventually got a reading.

So then I had to of course try the other locations. Did manage to get a reading further aft, but nothing reliable.

So now the job is to get the transducer up that far forward and still mounted where I had hoped. The unit comes with 22AWG cable. May be a dumb question but any idea if this is coax, or is it standard braided wire that I can cut and splice?

Thanks to all for getting me this far.

NCBrew I'm still remiss on getting my pics up from the keel pin replacement. I've done both of those jobs you are getting into so let me know by pm if you have any specific questions, but you will also find a wealth of knowledge in other posts.

The cable replacement was a treat. On the hard it is quick and easy.

Dropping the keel for the pin replacement took a bit more experience. I had an experienced hand locally that helped me out, but there are some excellent pictures and instructions here for a trailer based version: http://sailincat.com/boating/C25_proj/C25_sk_install.htm

Edited by - on

ReluctantRookie
Deckhand

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23 Posts

Response Posted - 07/14/2011 : 15:32:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ReluctantRookie
 So here's the update. GaryB you were bang on. The quaterbirth location did it. Took a bit of fiddling, but eventually got a reading.

So then I had to of course try the other locations. Did manage to get a reading further aft, but nothing reliable.

So now the job is to get the transducer up that far forward and still mounted where I had hoped. The unit comes with 22AWG cable. May be a dumb question but any idea if this is coax, or is it standard braided wire that I can cut and splice?

Thanks to all for getting me this far.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Looks like that is a no: https://buy.garmin.com/support/searchSupport/case.faces?caseId={cebb6300-a721-11de-5db4-000000000000}

<not sure why link isn't showing correctly. May have to cut and paste to address bar?>

Looks like I will have to come up with a different mounting location solution.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 07/14/2011 : 20:44:05

You should be able to buy an extension cable from the manufacturer. I bought one for my Humminbird. The transducer is under the V berth and the display is attached to the backside of my lower crib board. I just turn it around when I want to use it.

Edited by - on

ReluctantRookie
Deckhand

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23 Posts

Response Posted - 07/14/2011 : 23:13:36

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 You should be able to buy an extension cable from the manufacturer. I bought one for my Humminbird. The transducer is under the V berth and the display is attached to the backside of my lower crib board. I just turn it around when I want to use it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Right you are GaryB, they do have an extension but you can't use the existing transducer. And the cost of the replacements equal about what I paid for the unit itself (with transducer) and make the project a bit of a bust.

I think i can get to where I need to by moving my location. If not may just go back to a weighted rope. ;)

Edited by - on

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