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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 02/22/2011 : 21:14:22

I'm thinking they should be used to test the catapults each morning until there are none left. Wonder what the range of the human body would be with the steam turned up all the way?

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2011 : 04:52:24

That must be a heck of a conflict for a California couple handing out the good book to have been told ( as I'm sure they were ) that they had better take a Bushmaster with them. The needed to grow up, how naive.

Well.. I reckon they were ready to meet their maker, and the people that would just as soon send them there...

My feelings go out to the men and women that they put in harms way.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2011 : 04:58:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Tradewind
 Reports say 19 pirates involved, only 4 dead?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">6 dead - 4 hostages, 2 pirates

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2011 : 07:23:34

I heard four of the pirates were dead--two taken out by the Seals after boarding, and two that had been shot before the Seals arrived--apparently by the other pirates.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2011 : 08:30:32

It's a really sad reflection on Civilization: Those that have nothing to lose try to get it by any means.

And once they get it, they use it to get weapons to get more.

Of course, eventually, they get enough stuff to be less likely to risk losing it.

Maggie Thatcher figured that out. When the Unions in the UK were going on strike if the coffee pot was empty, it was a real problem. Of course most of the union members were also tenants of local government housing, if they went on strike, then the government helped them out financially! (Ok, not a lot, but enough to not discourage strikes).

So Maggie made the Government housing available for purchase at a huge discount. Lots of union workers bought into the home owners dream.

But then they had a mortgage! ---- government did not help with that if the workers went on strike!

Ta Daaaa!

So, all of these places around the world need to quickly get some lifestyle worth living for!

Paul

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2011 : 09:36:34

People sailing the world to hand out Bibles are an insult to the civilizations of the world. I am like most regarding the Somalis pirates, (kill them all and let God sort them out), but I have no compassion for these arrogant fools and their boat full of books. I think the Navy should have broken off the "escort" as soon as the boat's mission was discovered. And yes I am a Christian, well an Episcopalian anyway lol.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2011 : 14:34:43

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 ...I think the Navy should have broken off the "escort" as soon as the boat's mission was discovered...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I don't think the US Navy can or should make those judgments. And that's totally independent of my feelings about prosthelytizing, including by our military. (Now I've come close to breaking at least two forum rules.

)

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2011 : 15:51:15

Amen, Dave.

Edited by - on

jhinton
Navigator

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USA
123 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2011 : 18:05:47

If OUR Coast Guard goes out in the worst of the worst to rescue our citizens, why wouldn't OUR Navy do the same?

Recreational yachts go through there ALL THE TIME without incident. Why would these people think anything different? They were taking all the precautions (as far as we have been told) sailors are supposed to take when transiting that area of the world.

I think it's a little bit arrogant for us to be judging them from our couches when we don't know all the facts. What did they do wrong that hundreds of other sailors don't? Was it risky? Definitely. Were they doing something uncommon? Not at all. Were they prepared to face the possible consequences of their actions. Most likely.

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2011 : 18:53:42

well...I'm a city kid, born and bred...it's pretty much a basic tenant that you don't go around asking for trouble, when I was young, there were certain parts of NYC you simply avoided - regardless of freedom, civil liberties, etc...so it's beyond me why anyone would venture through those waters needlessly...

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2011 : 19:26:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jhinton
 I think it's a little bit arrogant for us to be judging them from our couches when we don't know all the facts. What did they do wrong that hundreds of other sailors don't?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">From a blog by another participant in the Blue Water Rally--before the news of the outcome:
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">How sad that a Blue Water Rally boat has been taken by pirates 200 miles off Oman. s/y Quest, who was here in Cochin just a couple of weeks ago taking part in the Blue Water Rally, went off traveling in India whilst the rest of the rally made their passage plans and then left before Quest had returned from their trip. The rally was planning to do the Arabian Sea crossing together from Mumbai.

There are a number of boats who have been coming through here (India), arrogantly exclaiming that 'it's just a lottery, I'll take my chances' when referring to passage planning. Two such boats who refused to listen to us when we told them to follow the coast and go over the top of the Arabian Sea just went straight ahead and took a rhumb line from Cochin to Salalah. A week later they returned with their tails between their legs after attacks off the Lakshwadeep Islands and other piracy reports made them realise the futility of their sail plans.

It appears as if s/y Quest tried to do the same route as the position of the attack suggests they too went straight across.

Why, why, why will sailors not listen to the advice given by the various task forces out there? Why do they not discuss and debate and share information and ideas and tactics with other sailors? Why are these people not using the available data on the internet that is updated daily? Why do they arrogantly believe that their sail plans are better than those who have done the passage many times before? Why are sailors not doing the utmost to minimise all risks? And why are sailors, like a chap here this morning, still saying things like "if pirates approach my boat I'll just shoot them out the water"?

I hope for a speedy solution to this latest travesty but I stand by a statement I got lambasted for making previously: some sailors are either arrogant or ignorant. Or both.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">The world cruising community, including much of the Blue Water Rally group, seems to be convinced of the danger of crossing the Arabian Sea. It's statistically a crap-shoot I'd never participate in. The fact that they were on a prosthelytizing mission probably didn't get them captured, but it very well might have gotten them killed.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 02/23/2011 19:30:44

jhinton
Navigator

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USA
123 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2011 : 20:34:51

I 100% agree that it was a risky decision that ultimately led to their deaths. I also agree with the fundamental principle of avoiding dangerous areas for my own good. But:

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 I think the Navy should have broken off the "escort" as soon as the boat's mission was discovered..
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

?? So because of the religious beliefs of four of our own American citizens, our Navy should disregard them? If they had just been sightseeing, then that's ok and the Navy should help them?

As a CG officer, the notion of not providing assistance to someone in need because of their religious convictions, that disgusts me.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2011 : 06:01:14

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jhinton
 I 100% agree that it was a risky decision that ultimately led to their deaths. I also agree with the fundamental principle of avoiding dangerous areas for my own good. But:

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 I think the Navy should have broken off the "escort" as soon as the boat's mission was discovered..
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

?? So because of the religious beliefs of four of our own American citizens, our Navy should disregard them? If they had just been sightseeing, then that's ok and the Navy should help them?

As a CG officer, the notion of not providing assistance to someone in need because of their religious convictions, that disgusts me.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I agree with jhinton. If an American, or any other sailor for that matter, is in distress at sea, and the US Navy or Coast Guard can help, I hope they would do so, regardless of whether the people in distress are Catholic, Jew, prosylitizing Christian, Democrat, Republican, gay or straight, without regard to race and even if they made a stupid blunder. The only thing that should matter is that they are human lives, and in distress.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2011 : 14:15:58

http://www.theday.com/article/20110225/INTERACT010102/110229770/-1/SPORT

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2011 : 15:11:17

A what-if question...

If one of these known pirate gunboats put up a distress flare, would one of our civilized navies be burdened to reply?? At what point is a person not worth saving?

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2011 : 15:53:43

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 A what-if question...

If one of these known pirate gunboats put up a distress flare, would one of our civilized navies be burdened to reply?? At what point is a person not worth saving?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">First you save them, then you discover they're carrying guns instead of fishing equipment... Then you...........

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2011 : 06:30:05

We have a bunch of these on Lysistrata http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=9487&BASE and I am prepared to fire them at any threat. Burns hot and for 40 seconds. Hopefully I hit a gas tank if ever in this situation.

Sadly, these idiots really did Darwin themselves - but all of that Bible Thumping does tend to cloud ones judgement. Just because you are an American does not mean that I want my tax dollars to come and find your sorry ass if you waltz into a scary place on the planet. But, on the other hand, now other neerthewells are getting the same idea rendering portions of South America, etc. unsafe to cruise anymore, so we need to do something.

I think the Navy should buy a few yachts and a few container ships, put commandos on them and go hang out and wait to be boarded. If the pirates don't know who is who, they will stop.

sten

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2011 : 07:07:10

I've just finished reading a few of Clive Cussler's books (fiction) that involve a U.S. military financed black ops group that operates out of a tricked out old freighter, looks like an old bucket of bolts but is actually a state-of-the-art warship. We could use one of those in real life to deal with these pirates!

Edited by - on

ruachwrights
Captain

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USA
258 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2011 : 10:29:35

Here's a good article in the NYT about piracy. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/27/weekinreview/27pirates.html?pagewanted=1& _r=1 I'll bet that from now on we'll be dealing with piracy harshly at sea but softly on land.

About the whole bible thing: As a main line minister with a tradition that believes that the good news is best preached in actions of humble loving kindness, I feel that handing out bibles alone in the context of a luxury yacht in an area already wary of bible thumping does not do much to further the gospel. Still there is something to be said for a commitment to free speech even in places where that freedom is not recognized. I'll bet with his stated purpose such as it was (to deliver bibles in Oman) he and his partner were willing to take that ultimate risk. Capture by Somali pirates was probably not part of the plan however.

Vern Wright

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2011 : 12:28:02

Amen, Rev!

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PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2011 : 13:17:26

Another pirate attack.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/01/world/africa/01pirates.html

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