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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Mast Rewiring Triplex vs Fourplex

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tflick
Deckhand

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Canada
10 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/11/2011 : 19:37:33

I have always had a hard time trying to understand wiring on my boat (wiring in general for that matter). I currently need to rewire my mast wires as neither my anchor, steaming, or deck light work. Coming out of my mast is a wire which contains three wires (black, green, white). And from the deck and into the boat on through to the panel is the same.

According to CD, in order to have an anchor light, steaming light, and deck light, I need to have fourplex wiring in place. If this is the case, it appears I will have to wire the mast and the wire passing through the deck to the panel.

Why do I need the extra wire in the fourplex run? Can I not stay with the triplex?

Thanks for your help.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2011 : 20:02:19

If you have a separate on-off-on switch someplace, it is possible to run both the steaming and anchor light on a single run since, in theory, the two should never be on at the same time. I have seen the wiring diagram for this, but I am not familiar with the setup. As far as I know, that is the only way to get away with a triplex wire.

I am staring own teh same project right now, and am having a hard time locating marine-grade 4-plex.

My plan is to run 4-plex as high as the steaming light, bond all the grounds, and continue to teh masthead with 2-wire.

Edited by - on

jhinton
Navigator

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USA
123 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2011 : 20:04:01

You'll need the four wires: one positive wire for each of the three lights (steaming, anchor, and deck) and one negative wire that is common among all three lights. I just rewired our mast entirely and it's a fairly easy job. Just be sure to ask questions!

Edited by - on

JoshMcCullock
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2011 : 22:09:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jhinton
 You'll need the four wires: one positive wire for each of the three lights (steaming, anchor, and deck) and one negative wire that is common among all three lights. I just rewired our mast entirely and it's a fairly easy job. Just be sure to ask questions!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Did you replace the deck connector as well? If so, did you go with the brass version and how hard was that job? We're planning on rewiring our mast this week. I'm looking forward to having reliable lights for once!

Thanks!

Edited by - on

trptelf
Navigator

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USA
113 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2011 : 06:03:56

Bill found this company for supplies http://tinnedmarinewire.com/wire/. Affordable and dependable and quick.

I believe he used triplex to the steaming/deck light combo, duplex to the anchor light, and then spliced the negatives together at the base of the mast. I wanted triplex going to the top of the mast to add a Windex light, but the triplex wouldn't fit in the conduit in the mast for the wiring.

Edited by - on

ilnadi
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2011 : 09:23:30

May not be the cheapest solution but I used the pre-made harness from CD (it comes in two versions, [url="http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=444&ParentCat=32"]regular[/url] and [url="http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=1155&ParentCat=32"]tall[/url]). It did fit inside the conduit and everything was just right.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5376 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2011 : 12:10:27

Just a thought but if I were rewiring my mast, and if I were using the (a) anchor light, (b) the steaming light and (c) the deck/spreader light switches on my panel, I'd do it using two separate cables and not use a single four-wire cable:

(1) a duplex cable (+12V and ground) to the anchor light (orange and green) connected as a home run to the receptacle at the mast-top and

(2) a triplex cable (+12V - steaming, +12V - deck light, ground) to the steaming and deck light combo (white, yellow and green) connected as a home run to the steaming light combo 1/2 way up the mast.

NB: wire color in the mast cable does not matter, as long as you keep track of the color code you have available. For instance, if I could get cable with red and black, I'd connect red to orange and black to green in the connector. Likewise, if the 3-wire came in red, green, black I'd connect red to white, green to yellow and black to green in the deck connector. But like I said, do it the way that works for you.

Using two separate cables avoids having to make any splices inside the mast for ground going both to the mast-top and to the steaming light. I'd splice the grounds together in the deck connector. Any place you make a splice in the cable makes it suceptible to corrosion.

I would also tie-wrap both cables together at regular interval (4"-6") and not cut-off the excess nylon, as this will prevent the cable banging and clanging inside the mast.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2011 : 06:13:54

4 plex

http://shop.genuinedealz.com/Marine%20Grade%20Wire/Mast%20Cable/

I went with the CD pre-made harness, and hope to drop the mast and rewire it this month.

Edited by - redeye on 03/14/2011 06:21:01

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2011 : 10:41:01

My cool little LED anchor/windex light has worked for about 3 years until now. I'm ready to drop the mast in a day or so, when the gusty wind is gone in my area. Then I can see:
<ul><li>How bad the corrosion is on my crimped connections </li><li>How badly the wires are broken </li><li>How the LED burned out prematurely </li><li>Whatever else is wrong</li></ul>
My dock neighbor says "Always solder, never crimp connections on boats!"

Three years was ok, but I expected the mast circuits to last as long as I owned the boat! I think I did everything right, according to Don Casey, but apparently there was some weak point in the system that has now failed.

Edited by - on

jrchase11
1st Mate

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35 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2011 : 17:25:55

I am looking at doing this too, and was wondering if you have the "conduit" in the mast, why can't you use primary wire (no cover like duplex and triplex) and then heat shrink the last 12" or so that exits the mast and goes to the deck connector?

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2011 : 19:06:14

<ul><li> Crimped connections were not corroded </li><li> Wires were not broken </li><li> LED failed, apparently due to roasting in the hot sun over 3 years </li><li> Nothing else was wrong from the switch panel to the masthead </li></ul>
I have no conduit in my 1978 mast. I made sure to check the 4-plex cable, and all wires gave perfect continuity after 3 years of the mast rocking and rolling out on the water, but mostly at the dock.

I tested the wires with two 9-volt batteries in series and a ($10?) volt-ohm-meter from Radio Shack.

The LED bulb had failed after 3 years of roasting in the sun, and I replaced it with a new, brighter, LED bulb.

The through-deck connector was fine, but I cleaned the pins and sockets and trimmmed the wires on both sides for clean contacts.

I also replaced the original steaming light fixture with a combo steaming/deck light that adds nice deck illumination that I appreciated when anchoring in the dark to sleep on the boat just last weekend.

I added zip ties at a spacing of about every 2 feet to the reinstalled mast wiring harness (cable) to prevent slapping inside the mast.

Perhaps others can chime in regarding the benefits or drawbacks of using multiple wires within a conduit that is under constant motion like our masts when the boat is on the water during the sailing season. The mast wiring harness does not allow chafe of any wires with each other, for example. If you have conduits below and above the steaming light fixture, that should in my opinion simplify the installation of any wires up to there and above there.

Since there was no anchor light originally on my boat, I found it tedious to push my new, curvy, fish tape through the mast, so I guided a string using a nail and a strong magnet along the mast from the foot up to the msthead. Then during this repair I made sure to keep the fish tape in place of the removed harness to facilitate reinstalling the harness after inspecting it.

Edited by - on

jrchase11
1st Mate

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35 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2011 : 19:07:14

Regarding mast wiring, I have read on different posts and from Catalina Direct that mast wiring is 14ga. When I run the voltage drop calcs for the masthead anchor light (.83 amps) with 20' from mast base to panel and another 29' from mast base to light I get less than 3% drop using 14 ga from panel to mast base and 16ga up the mast.

When running the same calculations for the 20W deck light=1.67amp (which by the way is non-critical and therefore could exceed the 3% drop requirement) I get about 3.5% drop using 14 to mast base and 16.

What I am after is only replacing wire in my mast. when examining the existing wire in my mast it appears to be no larger than 16 and it may even be 18.

Am I missing something here?

Edited by - on

Elfreda
Deckhand

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2 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2012 : 19:18:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JohnP
 My cool little LED <a href="http://www.ledstrips8.com/wholesale/what-is-smd-5050-or-smd-5050-products">what is smd 5050</a> anchor/windex light has worked for about 3 years until now. I'm ready to drop the mast in a day or so, when the gusty wind is gone in my area. Then I can see:
<ul><li>How bad the <a href="http://www.ledstrips8.com/wholesale/flexible-led-strip">led strip flexible</a> corrosion is on my crimped <a href="http://www.ledstrips8.com/wholesale/12-volt-led-lights-or-led-lighting-for-bulb">led 12 volt lights</a> connections </li><li>How badly the wires are broken </li><li>How the LED burned out prematurely </li><li>Whatever else is wrong</li></ul>
My dock neighbor says "Always solder, never crimp connections on boats!"

Three years was ok, but I expected the mast circuits to last as long as I owned the boat! I think I did everything right, according to Don Casey, but apparently there was some weak point in the system that has now failed.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

why can't you use primary wire (no cover like duplex and triplex) and then heat shrink the last 12" or so that exits the mast and goes to the deck connector?

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2012 : 19:37:03

John: Mast wire replacement is extra annoying and it seems like it would get banged around in there. The extra durability of the thicker wire seems like a good thing here.

The Don Casey Sailboat Electrical book recommends never running anything smaller than 16ga (even if 18ga would work) just since it barely costs any more and is a lot more durable.

I will say that my 1984 C-25 seemed to use 16ga wire (and I'm pretty sure it was original). I probably should have run a replacement when I had the mast down last weekend, the wire was badly corroded and it took a lot of cleanup to get a good connection.

Edited by - on

blanik
Navigator

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Canada
210 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2012 : 19:49:12

i just did mine in the same fashion, the original 3 wires where all oxidized and dead, pulled them out (with a guide string attached to both end (anchor and steaming), it was a bit hard because the original wire had foam cubes taped every 4' and they where all dried out and hard so they would jam on every bolt and screw inside the mast but i managed to take it all out

i then attached the guide wire on the new CD wire harness (worth buying) and pulled it back in place, once all the lights connected and screwed back in place i put a new 4 pin conector

on the boat i removed the old crappy 3 pin connector socket and pulled the wires until they broke i then drilled a big 5/8" hole through (be careful of the bulkhead, on my boat it was right underneath the deck connector so i mangled it a bit (cosmetic only)), i then filled the hole with epoxy, once dried i re-drilled a smaller hole so the old wire wasn't even visible anymore (before pouring epoxy i pushed the wire remains inside the core with a screwdriver), put the new wire in with the connector sealed on deck and i passed the wire on the junction between the bulkhead and the ceiling, underneath the leatherette trim then in the space where the existing wires are (tie-wrapped to the old wires) and all the way to the lazarette, very clean job in the end (except for the cosmetic fumble on the bulkhead :-/ )

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2012 : 20:55:17

I have the triplex wire and plug in mine now, because I only have a steamer and anchor. I bought the CD fourplex harness and brass cannon plug. Plan was (and still is I guess) to replace anchor light fixture, steamer light fixture, put LED's in both, plus add deck lights up on the spreaders....one facing fore and one aft. I'll have to run a new wire back to the panel and add a new switch.

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2012 : 16:33:50

Why not just use the mast for a ground?

Edited by - on

TCurran
Admiral

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USA
588 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2012 : 04:36:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redeye
 4 plex

http://shop.genuinedealz.com/Marine%20Grade%20Wire/Mast%20Cable/

I went with the CD pre-made harness, and hope to drop the mast and rewire it this month.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ray you beat me to the punch, Genuinedealz.com has marine quality wire at a great price, rewired my C25 with their products and happy with their prices, products, and customer service.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2012 : 09:26:58

4 plex. Lighter than two duplexes. Color coding does matter - you will figure that out if a PO changed something on your boat. Have pity on the poor soul dealing with your wiring in the future. I have 4 plex in case I want a deck/spreader light in the future.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5376 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2012 : 22:37:46

Using the mast for a ground is a bad idea. Most connection terminal lugs are tinned copper, and against an aluminum mast with stainless steel bolts securing the lugs to the mast, you will soon get corrosion between dissimilar metals.
No point in cheaping-out on this. If you need to, you can still get three-wire cable, plus a spare ground cable wrapped around the jacket of the three-conductor cable.

Edited by - on

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