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Balanced Rudders anyone???

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2011 : 08:34:29

I agree larry. It would be very easy to drill a couple holes through a piece of 1/4" plywood to send with your order, and give the distance from, say the bottom of the boat to the lower hole. I think that would be the critical dimension since the balanced design tucks in under the boat.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3462 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2011 : 20:34:02

So...at this point, I guess we are all waiting for more details on the final product, cost and fabrication details. If I get a warm/fuzzy that this one is fabricated identical to the way my '89 rudder was fabricated originally, then this offering may become my first choice when I replace my rudder. Right now my rudder seems fine but I recall previous owner indicating when he had the boat inspected, the surveyer indicated the rudder had some soft spots and advised the owner to remove the rudder during the off season if boat was to remain in water all year-round. Well, I also keep the boat in the water year-round but I sail year-round and so the rudder rarely if ever comes out of the water. The PO had the boat for 4 years and so his survey comments reflects comments made 4 years earlier. Then add the 5 1/2 years I have had the boat and so....I may consider replacing the rudder even though it shows no outward deteriorating conditions.

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NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2011 : 13:39:15

Got the rudder today. It looks good!

I'll remind him to try and come in here, or at least send me the info to post.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2011 : 14:34:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by SJ
 Sounds like a good idea, however i think I would still rather drill them myself. Better to be mad at me than at someone else....
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I'll offer a warning that drilling these holes is very tricky. The rudder surface is not completely flat, and each hole must align with two holes in the pintle--one on each side--easier said than done. I did it by drilling tiny pilot holes from each side, and gradually expanding them. If this guy will mount the pintles for you, I'd say it's worthwhile.

What he'll need is the exact measurement from the top of the upper gudgeon to the top of the lower one, and from the top of the lower gudgeon to the bottom of the skeg. It probably wouldn't hurt to also give him the top of the upper gudgeon to the top of the transom, although that shouldn't be too important. If he positions the pintles so (1) they're a tiny bit further apart than the measurements and (2) the "step" is an inch or so below the skeg, you can make fine adjustments by putting several fender washers on top of the gudgeons so that the rudder ends up being supported by both gudgeons. (Not that weight is much of an issue--my balanced rudder wanted to float off the gudgeons, but for the cotter pin.) The washers aren't a bad idea anyway.

I chose to have a gap somewhere in the range of 3/4" to 1" (don't remember that precisely) between the skeg and the rudder "step" so that if a pot warp found its way in there, it wouldn't become jammed.

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2011 : 16:17:55

Nauti - can you post a shot of the thin edge of it? I would like to know haw the seam there looks. A shot of a brand new rudder may be good reference for folks wondering if theirs is faulty down the road.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2011 : 20:36:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 A shot of a brand new rudder may be good reference for folks wondering if theirs is faulty down the road.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Assuming it's like mine was, there's no visible seam. A split is "faulty"--a smooth edge isn't. I presume they're not coring the head with wood, which is what contributed to most of the splits on Catalina's unbalanced rudders. And as long as you prevent the foam-cored rudder from freezing, you should have no problem, even if some moisture intrudes. I kept mine in the basement each winter.

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Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
465 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2011 : 21:14:21

They put the long-pin pintle on top and the short-pin pintle below. Ida and Cat-Direct recommend the longer one on the bottom. For putting the rudder in place while holding it from above, I think it's easier to engage the lower gudgeon first, near the center of mass of the rudder, and then just move the top around as needed to engage the upper. Maybe if I tried it the other way I might not question it, but it seems backwards to me.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2011 : 08:05:20

You're right, Lee... The long one goes on the bottom, for ease of installation. The short one (with the cotter pin hole) goes on top, for ease of pinning and unpinning.

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NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2011 : 09:53:58

That depends where you're at when installing and pinning the rudder. Trailerable boats install the rudder before launching from the ground, while boats in the water do it from inside the cockpit above.

I'll get some pics in a few hours.

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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2011 : 13:05:26

You also might find out like I did that by having the long pintle at the bottom there wasn't enough room for the gudgeon (the new style with the plastic insert) to slip between the pintle and the rudder. I ended up having to trim the lower long pintle some.

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2011 : 13:22:19

Nauti - Having had to do an emergency rudder re-install on the rocks in G-bay, I would want the cotter-pin in the upper pintal where it is reachable from the cockpit, regardless of whether I trailered or not.

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cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2011 : 13:25:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 Nauti - Having had to do an emergency rudder re-install on the rocks in G-bay, I would want the cotter-pin in the upper pintal where it is reachable from the cockpit, regardless of whether I trailered or not.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
DEFINITELY would want the cotter-pin on the upper pintle! Thats where mine is and I am really glad after a rudder dismount/re-mount wheil in the water!

Chuck

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2011 : 13:33:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by islander
 You also might find out like I did that by having the long pintle at the bottom there wasn't enough room for the gudgeon (the new style with the plastic insert) to slip between the pintle and the rudder. I ended up having to trim the lower long pintle some.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I can imagine what you're describing. I had the old-style gudgeons without the sleeves and knee braces.

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NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2011 : 05:43:26

There are no visible seams on it.

Edited by - NautiC25 on 05/16/2011 05:44:27

SJ
Navigator

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USA
198 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2011 : 07:09:57

Any word on the cost yet??????

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NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2011 : 07:22:06

I sent another email this moring asking about that. You're welcome to contact Don directly....
(949) 646-0244
http://www.boatrudder.com/index.htm

Edited by - NautiC25 on 05/16/2011 07:23:29

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3462 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2011 : 08:53:30

Jonathon,

That's one nice looking rudder - seamless !!

My rudder definitely has a seam. But I would have to look at it more closely, it appears to be solid resin in the seam ... not like it is separating.

Edited by - on

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2011 : 09:02:40

Thanks. I'm super excited about it. My 89 seperated bad. It was about 1/4" wide and could see the core. It worried me every time I went out and I couldn't afford a new one right now.

So, how should I go about caring for the new one? I wish I could take it out and put it in the cabin each time I leave, but that would be another huge chore added after a long day of sailing. And we don't have off-seasons here.
Until I get it coated, I'm sure that'll be a requirement.

Edited by - NautiC25 on 05/16/2011 09:05:14

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2011 : 09:18:28

I haven't heard of any special treatment except for not leaving it exposed to sunlight when the boat is out of teh water. I suppose that if you trailer sail, that would be a daily chore.

The other thing I have heard is not to let it freeze in the winter. Do you get WINTER in Texas, or just winter?

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NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2011 : 09:23:49

No winter here. Once or twice a year we get ice on the streets, but it doesn't last long. We got our first snow in 25yrs in San Antonio this past winter. Lasted a whole 3hrs before it melted. Had to take pictures quick! But the water on the lake doesn't freeze.

Most of the pics in my sig were taken in mid-December last year.

Edited by - NautiC25 on 05/16/2011 09:25:12

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2011 : 09:31:57

That *may* be harder on the rudder than a solid freeze.

We freeze up in late december, and thaw out probably a dozen times between then and spring. so the material in our rudders (and everythign else) is relatively stable interms of expansion/contraction due to freezing. What expansion we do get would be way more than you since we get colder, but really, once the ice freezes to its max, the change willbe miniscule in somethign the size of a rudder. On a lake its a different story.

From what you are saying, I am going to guess that over teh winter you may have a month or 6 weeks of sub-freezing temperatures at night, with daytime temps above freezing. If that is the case you will go through 30 - 40 freeze-thaw cycles with each cycle working at whatever water has been absorbed into the rudder. Each cycle is like another tug on a crowbar - not much of a tug, but another one, and another, and another. In the summer you get heat working the other way, at a far more extreme temperature than we do. We get about 3 weeks of +90°F temps. If the rudder is out of teh water (which will moderate the temperature at both ends of the scale) I can see where that environment would be really hard on it.

This is all speculation though - I don't live there and I don't trailer-sail.

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NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2011 : 09:39:58

No, we don't get below 32 degrees very much at all. Maybe 2-3 days in the year.

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PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2011 : 09:45:01

I discovered this weekend that I do indeed have a balanced rudder.

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2011 : 09:48:37

I just looked you up on the weathernetwork. I'm moving there. Can you suggest a good street to live on?

Holy crap you guys have good average temperatures. http://www.theweathernetwork.com/statistics/C02729/ustx2321

I guess I can't suggest anything to do to protect the rudder then. Good luck!

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NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2011 : 10:20:20

LOL, we actually do have an off-season and it's right around July-August where it's just too hot! Otherwise, it's always a perfect day for sailing.

Edited by - NautiC25 on 05/16/2011 10:23:38

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