Association Forum - One side of hull blistered?

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

One side of hull blistered?

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

Member Avatar

USA
1916 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/03/2002 : 19:15:15

Hi folks,

Well, based on a survey last weekend of a Wing keel 89 model, I turned the boat down. When we pulled the boat, the port side of the boat was clean, while the starbord side was blister city. My gut feeling told me that something was very wrong with this picture, and as I get older I have learned to go with my gut feeling. I hope I didn't screw up (I've never said that before)and turned down a good boat. Of course the survey cost me 260, haul out and clean 210, and 100 bucks for gas for two long trips.

The boat was in Lake Norman in North Carolina, which gets very warm in the summer, with water temps over 80 degrees for many days. Apparently temperature effects blistering. I have also heard that Catalina started using Vinylester resin in 89 to prevent blisters. Could something be wrong with the layup? One theory is that one side of the boat is sunny and one is shady. Another is that a neighboring boat puts out too much trash and waste (I don't buy into that one myself)

Any theories?

Still looking for a wing keeled boat

Frank Gloss
fgloss@knology.net

Frank

Edited by - on

jlouder
1st Mate

Members Avatar

27 Posts

Response Posted - 12/03/2002 : 21:40:57

I had close to the same prooblem on a 88 Catalinia 25 wing keel that I purchased this summer. The boat was in great shape, one owner, however the bottom was covered in boat pox(she had not been out of the water for ten years). I sanded the bottom and removed all the bottom paint and let it sit for three long hot texas months. Then I applied 6 or so coat of water barrier and two coats of bottom paint. So far three months later no sign of blisters or pox.

I love the way the wing keel sails. She does well in 5 to 25 mph wind.

You need to go with your gut feeling on any purchase, I turned down several before finding this one. Good luck on your search.

Jim
'Amazing Grace'

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1595 Posts

Response Posted - 12/03/2002 : 21:56:17

Best thing to do here is let everyone know to do their homework. There may have been more than one batch of resin used on that boat or it may have been molded or put ouside in the sun to cure. Uneven cure temp / Hot on one side cool on the other may have caused it. In the mid 70's when they tried to make resin more fireproof they began to add glycol. Well guess what glycol does. It atracts moisture. I layers of roving and mat glass it draws it along the fibers in a capilary action and forms a blister. Small gel coat blister arent a problem. Fixing them is easy. Larger blisters 1" and up are more of a problem. Pop one or two and note the color of the liquid that comes out. Clear is OK or good but amber to darker browns and black is not good. Two ideas or thoughts here. Leave them alone and monitor to see if they get worse or fix them as you go. Its up to you. I have blisters on Triska. Ill do one side of the hull next year and the other side the following year. No worries.

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.

Edited by - on

Sailynn
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
178 Posts

Response Posted - 12/04/2002 : 00:55:14

My first C25 was a wing keel 89. Had epoxy bottom and never had a problem with blisters. You were right to trust your gut feeling. The wing keel is harder to find but the worth the wait.

Edited by - on

luckystar
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
236 Posts

Response Posted - 12/04/2002 : 03:16:18

I agree with Douglas. Most boats you're going to find have one problem or another. A lot of them have blisters, especially in the eighties when, from what I understand, as the sailing market began to diminish, the methods and materials became cheaper to keep the profit margin high. Whether Catalina did this or if it's just an environmental/chemical thing, I don't know. I do know that my 82 swinger has a few that I can see that are, at the biggest, the size of a dime. I will take her out of the water next year, for the first time in 4 years for a bottom job the first time in well over 10. I plan to pop as many as are feasible, but when it comes down to it, unless they are big and full of black stuff, I'm going to get her dried out, epoxy bottomed, bottom painted and back out sailing. If she's lasted 20 years, I'm pretty sure she'll last another 20 (once again, I prefaced this by saying unless there are monumental blisters). It's been a long, long, long debate about these blisters over the years and it freaked me out for a while, but I'd rather go sailing!
Yes, your gut was something to trust, but maybe you should just ask a little less or suck it up and fix them. In the end you'll know your boat, be confident in the hull and hell, I enjoy fixing mine, it's a pride of ownership thing. Nothing in this world is 100%, even when it's new. Good Luck!

Patrick Burnett, Little Rock, AR
S/V Lucky Star #2707 1982 SK/SR

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 12/04/2002 : 03:56:25

Frank,
How would you quantify "blister city"? I stopped counting at 300 when I repaired my blisters. I've yet to hear of a boat that had blisters so bad that it couldn't be repaired. Did the owner repair the one side with the intention of repairing the other at some future date?
If you'd consider repairing the blisters yourself, I wouldn't give a whole lot of thought to them - it's an easy (although time consuming) fix. Did the surveyor comment of their severity?

I copied the following from West Marine. It references a very helpful manual from Gougeon Brothers on blister repair, $3.00

<b>Blisters and Barrier Coats</b>

When fiberglass boats were first built, no one thought about the possibility of gelcoat blisters. Gelcoat was believed to be an impermeable layer that would keep the underlying resin and fibers dry forever.

However, as we now know, blisters mysteriously appear on some boats and, just as mysteriously, not on others?sometimes quickly and sometimes after years of use. Warm water seems to encourage them and the exact choice of resin may help deter them, but the fact is?even today?we don?t completely understood why blistering occurs.

To understand how to avoid and to deal with them, let?s quickly review how the typical fiberglass boat is constructed. First, the mold release wax is sprayed onto the inside of the (usually) female mold, and then the layers of gelcoat are sprayed on. Gelcoat is a pigmented resin that gives the boat its natural color and smooth exterior finish. Inside the gelcoat are layers of fiberglass, usually in the form of chopped-strand mat and woven roving, saturated with polyester resin. It is inside this fiberglass matrix that the blister mischief begins when water seeps through the gelcoat.

Tiny amounts of water get inside the fiberglass and begin to dissolve the minerals and chemicals found there. This solution then attracts additional water through the gelcoat barrier using the process of osmosis. As more water enters, the pressure increases and finally, a blister is formed.

Barrier Coats: Once manufacturers figured out that blisters resulted from water penetrating the gelcoat membrane, it didn?t take long to figure out what to do about it. The barrier coat?usually epoxy or similar material that seals out the moisture?was born. However, figuring out exactly where, when and how to apply it is the hard part and leads to some hard decisions.

Unfortunately, it?s virtually impossible to determine which boats need treatment to avoid blisters, so each must be considered as a potential problem.

New boats with gelcoat intact need only a careful surface wipe-down with solvent dewaxer, a thorough sanding and the application of the recommended thickness of barrier coat, followed by antifouling paint appropriate to the area?s waters. (Note: Some new boats may be delivered ready for antifouling paint application.) We offer barrier coat products from each of our major paint manufacturers. A review of their manuals will tell you how seriously they take this problem. They give drying times, literally by the hour, for the range of temperatures over which the coating may be applied, along with precise recommendations as to the number of coats that will give the necessary film thickness after it dries.

Older Boats: It?s a tougher call with older boats, where gelcoat is in suspect condition and blisters are beginning to form. We must remember that the function of a barrier coat is to prevent the passage of moisture. If water is already in the laminate, adding barrier coat prematurely will just seal the water in. One school of thought prescribes stripping the gelcoat entirely, testing the laminate with a moisture meter and letting the boat sit on the hard for as many months as it takes for the meter to read the same both above and below the waterline.

Blister Repair: More often, the gelcoat is in reasonably good shape, but a few blisters are in evidence and are large enough to demand attention. In these cases, blister repair by the owner is practical. Haul the boat and scuff-sand lightly over the blistered areas. This marks the blisters for later attention so they can still be seen if they flatten out. Then open the blisters, scrape or grind away the damaged material and allow time for thorough drying. This could require many days, or even weeks.

Deciding on the right material and technique for repairing the surface is next. Each manufacturer offers a selection of products to be used in sequence to seal the laminate, fill the void that has been made by grinding out the damaged material and fairing the surface in preparation for the final gelcoat repair.

Seeking local advice; especially from someone experienced with your particular make of boat; can be helpful. We offer a number of books on blisters and blister repair. Books like the Fiberglass Boat Repair Manual, by marine surveyor Allen H. Vaitses, and This Old Boat, in which Don Casey describes a specific restoration, are both good resources. We also recommend two introductory publications from Gougeon Brothers' series of WEST SYSTEMS books: Fiberglass Boat Repair and Maintenance (Model Number 318485), and <font color=blue>Gelcoat Blisters: Diagnosis, Repair, and Prevention (Model Number 384420)</font id=blue>. They are inexpensive and full of information. Up-to-date information based on current experience can be found in many boating magazines. Analyzing and following procedures outlined in these publications should help you find a solution to your particular blister problem.

Edited by - OJ on 12/04/2002 03:59:05

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 12/04/2002 : 07:10:05

Y'awl,

A couple of years ago when I removed osmepneo for the season (can't believe anyone would leave their boat in for four years <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>) and after power washing discovered a series of waterline level blisters. In the spring I repaired them, and as others have said it was not a difficult project.

Not to question your "gut" but since blisters are so easy to repair, you should expect an allowance on the asking price for them. It would be reasonable, in my myopic mind, to get an estimated repair cost from the marina and then take that cost off the price you'd be willing to pay if the hull was blisterless. Your surveyor ought to be able to help you arrive at a repair cost.

Just a thought.

BTW. osmepneo has a wing keel, and I really like it.

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 12/04/2002 : 13:47:29

Curious -- mine gets blisters mostly on the port side. Previous owner said the same thing. Last bottom job/blister repair was two years ago, which was the only time I did the work myself. While diving, I don't see any now, but they may not appear until the boat is lifted out of the water, probably this winter. We'll see...

Good luck on your search, Frank.

RichardG 81 C25 SR/FK "Sanity"

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 12/04/2002 : 14:05:53

Mmmmm!

Good question Richard.

osmepneo's blisters were mostly on the Port side, although there were may 15% as many on the Starboard side.

Perhaps others will add fuel to the fodder of this very scientific survey <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>.

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

Edited by - on

luckystar
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
236 Posts

Response Posted - 12/04/2002 : 14:13:35

Don, unfortunately around here, there are no trailers or travelifts and the weather is sailable all year round, so most of the sailboats in my marina don't get pulled but once every couple of years at the earliest. All seem to fair pretty well.

Also, the blisters that I have felt while diving where mainly on my port side as well. I only have about 25 small, small waterline ones on the starboard side that aren't big enought to deal with. I wonder if there is something in that, as you'd said, scientific reasoning?eh?

Patrick Burnett, Little Rock, AR
S/V Lucky Star #2707 1982 SK/SR

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 12/04/2002 : 18:14:47

Patrick,

If my job required travel, as it used to, maybe I wouldn't be jealous of y'awl who get to leave your boats in all year, and are able to sail all year. When we moved to Houston I sailed in HYC's annual revognah regatta (that's hangover backward and is sailed on January 1st). It was there that I bought my c22 and it was "moored" (I dry sailed in Houston) at Clear Lake all year. It was wonderful to drive down in the winter and go sailing in November to March when all those Northern folks were on the hard. But, in July and August that was another matter! On a West Coast vacation to San Diego Char and rented a Capri 22 for a wonderful afternoon of sailing in January. But that was only one day.

Now I go on the hard during the fall and lose alot of time y'awl are sailing. And, this response has absolutley nothing to do with blisters, does it?

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 12/04/2002 : 19:53:38

Thanks for the information on the blisters. Of course this was not the only issue I had with the boat, but it was the major one. I especially like the theory that the hull was laid up with two different resins, or laid out in the sun to cure. Two different resins is what came to my mind. The survey report said "hundreds of blisters" All on one side. Some on the keel. Very strange
In my mind, if the owner is asking a premium price, relative to the market, you should get a premium boat.
The head guy at the marina said it would cost several thousand to fix the blisters, and that it wasn't worth it. I know I could fix them myself, buy I wanna go sailin'
Worst case scenario I will just have to sail my Catalina 22, which has been completely renovated by me, for a little while longer. Now that's not so bad is it?
Still looking for a Wing Keel 25.

Thanks
Frank Gloss

Frank

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.