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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

since we have aft lowers...

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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/31/2011 : 11:34:31

how about this? BIG ROACH!

Frank Hopper

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2011 : 13:30:31

That's nuthin' compared to some of the Hunters... but I'm amused by that skinny thing holding the backstay out. (?) It would seem he'd have trouble trying to really harden the forestay.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 03/31/2011 13:31:56

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 03/31/2011 : 19:39:20

It becomes completely inline when hauled, it is essentially a single running backstay, loosen the backstay and the leaf spring lifts the backstay out of the way, after the tack harden to full tension inline from the mast head to the transom.

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two port feet
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 03/31/2011 : 23:24:36

Go figure one more way to spend a lot more money. Dose look kool.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5902 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2011 : 05:57:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 
It becomes completely inline when hauled, it is essentially a single running backstay, loosen the backstay and the leaf spring lifts the backstay out of the way, after the tack harden to full tension inline from the mast head to the transom.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">It's a neat idea that undoubtedly works. The only question is whether it is worth the extra effort of having to ease it and reset it every time you tack or gybe. On a big, dedicated racing boat, almost anything that helps is worth the effort, but on a small racer-cruiser, where you have limited space for a limited number of people in the cockpit, do you have room to spare and the necessary manpower to devote to another critical function? I think you'd have to be sure that you had a full, well-trained crew that was always there to help you race the boat. If I frequently had different crew, I don't think I'd want to have to show them not only how to work all the different jobs on the boat before each race, but also to show someone how to handle the backstay. On balance, I'd rather have a normal racing roach and a stock backstay. When you keep increasing the complexity of a sport that is already incredibly complex, the law of diminishing returns eventually comes into play.

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2011 : 08:18:00

So we're seeing him in the middle of a tack? Hope so... As it is in the picture, the backstay can't be doing much good. (And I wouldn't loosen it that way for a jibe--you want a fully-functioning backstay for that.)

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 04/01/2011 : 08:45:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 So we're seeing him in the middle of a tack? Hope so... As it is in the picture, the backstay can't be doing much good. (And I wouldn't loosen it that way for a jibe--you want a fully-functioning backstay for that.)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">That bothered me, too, but the backstay is still functioning. It's holding the mast up. It's just letting the rig tilt forward when sailing downwind. It probably doesn't let it tilt much farther than a fully loosened backstay adjuster. But, if you have to ease it to let the roach clear it during a tack, you'll also have to ease it to let the roach clear it when it gybes.

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2011 : 09:30:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 [quote]Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 ...but the backstay is still functioning. It's holding the mast up. It's just letting the rig tilt forward when sailing downwind. It probably doesn't let it tilt much farther than a fully loosened backstay adjuster...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I dunno... To pull down when the stay is tightened, that little whip needs to be pretty bendy. When in the position shown, it can't be doing much more than holding the backstay away from the roach. You use an adjuster to (1) unbend the mast to make the main fuller and (2) loosen the forestay to make the jib fuller. But the backstay is still fairly taut--just not enough to bend the mast back.

Frank seems to be suggesting that the aft lowers will hold the mast up while the backstay is released like that. I prefer to think the entire rig, as designed by the manufacturer, needs to be in the game-- particularly in a jibe, for the safety of the occupants. Thus, Hunter's B&R rig can carry a huge roach because there's no backstay, but the entire rig was designed that way. (...and I personally wouldn't own one on a boat over 18'.)

What does Derek have for his big-a$$ roach?

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/01/2011 09:37:44

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 04/01/2011 : 10:01:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by StinkpotterWhat does Derek have for his big-a$$ roach?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I dunno, Dave. My old 1981 vintage North racing main had a big-a$$ roach that brushed against the backstay by about 6-8 inches, or maybe a little more. At first, it got stuck frequently on the backstay when I tacked, and I had to push it across with my hand. After awhile, the fabric softened a bit, and it passed the backstay much more easily without snagging on it. After it aged, it only snagged in light air. But, there's one big difference between my racing mainsail and modern racing mainsails. Mine was built before full battens became in vogue, so my sail had partial battens. Those allowed the roach a little more room to flex, and thus to cross the backstay without snagging. I'm racing on boats with big roaches and full battens on the Chesapeake, and they're all struggling with the sail snagging on the backstay with almost every tack. It's no wonder they're looking for a device like this to solve that problem.

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aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2011 : 13:40:48

Ditto, ditto. I have a large roach on my main and it catches in light air. It's not only irritating to have to climb behind the backstay and yank it back to release the roach, it's not ideal for helming when racing, or even cruising single handed, when you have to leave the tiller to release the main. Not sure I like the backstay solution Frank(?) showed though. Any solution would require a slightly longer backstay. I do like the big roach in light air though, so I'm not likely to have it cut out of the sail. Guess I'll just have to deal with it hanging up.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5902 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2011 : 14:49:36

Even though it's a nuisance, I wouldn't have it cut down. It really powers up the mainsail.

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pastmember
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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2011 : 15:25:33

The 7.9 is tied up in its slip. Remember, the mainsheet purchase pulling down on the main acts as a backstay when hard on the wind; but yes I think the lowers would hold p the mast when the backstay was cast off.

Edited by - pastmember on 04/01/2011 15:30:28

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2011 : 15:34:27

My main occasionally snags the backstay and in light air I sometimes have to wiggle the backstay to get it over. To lessen the snags, I adjusted my boom downwards a wee bit lowering my main which reduced the snagging.

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NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2011 : 16:17:22

A large quick release system using an added lever for mechanical ease could work well if it was long enough to allow the stay to stretch out. For every 6" of lever, you get 1' of stay slack.

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Boomeroo
Navigator

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Australia
129 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2011 : 03:26:12

The rig in the photo would have swept back spreaders that push the mast forward ,thus holding it up without the need of a back-stay .
The back-stay then is used to bend the top section of the mast and flatten it in strong winds . Tacking in strong winds the main usually flips thru'. The crane extension is often cheap section of batten
Our boats with abeam spreaders need the back-stay on to support the mast and tension the forestay.

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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4593 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2011 : 20:32:56

Almost every S2-7.9 that I've seen has that set-up. They tend to use sail batten material for it. Their main does have a very full roach and the batten spring device is effective at pushing the back stay out away from the sail.

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