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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/06/2011 : 12:47:23

I've been doing a little thinking, and I would like to get a rail-mount camera on the boat. Actually, I'd like 3, but I should probably start with just one.

I have found a few, but not being up on all the lingo and whatnot, I'm not sure what I should be looking for. I know that image stabilization is a big deal, but apparently there are post-production filters you can run the video through for that. I know that more is better when it comes to mega pixels.

At my favourite cheap electronics website I came across this description:

"Waterproof 720P 5M Pixel CMOS Vehicle Mount Video Recorder/Camcorder w/ Red Laser/HDMI/TV-Out/SD"

But I mostly don't know what all that means. What should I be looking for for TV quality footage and decent recording length (like 3 hours +/-).

"Iris"
1984 FK/SR #4040
http://frosthaus.blogspot.com/

Take a minute to register your boat with the association!!
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/owner_questionnaire.htm

Edited by - Prospector on 05/06/2011 12:48:31

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2011 : 13:01:22

Check this thing out:
http://gopro.com/
Tons of mounting, waterproof to 180', $259.99 for the naked version.
I am fairly certain I will be buying one because I would like to take it SCUBA diving as well.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2011 : 13:17:01

Here's my primary reason for buying one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72tfASOfDis
Fun stuff!

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2011 : 15:48:37

1080p HDTV is about 2 megapixels, anything above that is wasted in video but useful when the camera takes a still picture. More pixels is better to a point. Bigger pixels have a better signal to noise ratio and don't spill as much light from bright objects into adjacent dark areas, so 3mp might produce cleaner video than 6mp on the same size chip (usually .25" or .33". Seeing the results is the only way to be sure of the video quality. If you don't want it for diving, any of the pocket HD recorders would work in a dry sleeve. The Flip and the Zi-8 are among the best, but those cameras don't have optical zoom and I don't know if remote control is available. My Olympus Stylus Tough is a fine waterproof point and shoot that also takes pretty good video. Most of the small cameras store directly on SD memory cards, but some have some internal storage. HD video will consume about 100 megabytes per minute, so you can use as big and as many cards as you want until the battery dies. Multiple cheaper cameras would let you create better video by allowing scene cuts. HDMI and TV out to connect directly to a TV are useless to me because I have never shot video that didn't need to be edited to prevent boring anyone who watched it on a TV.

Edited by - Dave5041 on 05/06/2011 15:51:36

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2011 : 15:53:24

Thanks - Dave your info was especially helpful. The camera mentioned above is from a cheap chinese site that I have been lucky with. At $115 I can't go too far wrong... can I???

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/waterproof-720p-5m-pixel-cmos-vehicle-mount-video-recorder-camcorder-w-red-laser-hdmi-tv-out-sd-65249

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2011 : 18:48:54

I think you could go wrong. It uses AVI video format, a 20 year old format developed by Microsoft that doesn't hold up against the H-284, MPEG-4, that current recorders use. AVI uses more space for storage and doesn't always play well with modern computer editing programs. You won't get a boxful of cables and things, but you really won't need them. You might want to look at the Flip line from Cisco and the Kodak products for a similar price; several other companies make similar products but these two are highly rated and the only ones that I have direct experience with. The one you listed doesn't have a display and is aimed by putting the laser dot on your subject - it sounds like the unit on police car dashboards. You can check some models out at Bestbuy, Walmart, or just about anywhere else to see if they meet your expectations and requirements.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2011 : 19:03:19

I bought a Zi8 from Kodak and am very pleased with it. I have a video of me trying out a new 7 iron here if you would like to see how it looks. On my Mac the full res HD 720p will pause in quicktime and step through frame by frame and look great, this online res version can't. BTW these are foam balls.

http://gallery.mac.com/fhopper#100151

Edited by - pastmember on 05/06/2011 19:04:43

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2011 : 06:21:21

I just bought a Go Pro, and have a rail-mount and a helmet-mount for it. I haven't used it yet, but hope to get some good onboard race action with it, as well as some good heavy weather video. I'll probably also get some video on my Harley Davidson, so I can replay it during the winter and listen to that wonderful Harley rumble.

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2011 : 06:34:49

What do you ride Steve? I have a Heritage....

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2011 : 09:34:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 ...I'll probably also get some video on my Harley Davidson, so I can replay it during the winter and listen to that wonderful Harley rumble.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Just get a 4x8 sheet of 3/8" plywood and two mallets.

Who's gonna rig a [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKGupz_9mGc"]kite-cam[/url]?

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/07/2011 10:32:29

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2011 : 13:42:34

I have been eyeballing the gopro cameras, but am gunshy on them. No display, and as far as I could see no mic (whre does sound get in on that plastic case?).

I will have to look into some of the others listed above. Our home internet is getting worse by the day, so I'll watch that video on monday at teh office.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2011 : 15:45:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> I have been eyeballing the gopro cameras, but am gunshy on them<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I think if you want a video/still camera to capture your dogs/kids/grandkids and or everyday events, a GoPro is not the camera for you. I think it's more of a secondary camera. One you can drop in the drink, strap to your boom (which I plan on trying), take it underwater and generally not worry about ruining it, then a GoPro is the one. Otherwise, you will want a camera that has more features.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2011 : 16:56:07

The Go Pro has no built-in display, but it has a wide angle lens, and I'm going to use mine first and see if a display is necessary. It really is designed to mount and capture the panorama, without aiming it. A display is an optional attachment. The Go Pro is often used by sky divers, mounted on their helmets, and it sees what the skydiver is looking at. In that sense, you aim it with your head position. I'll try it without a display, but get one if necessary. The feature that the Go Pro has that most other cameras don't have is they're waterproof. They can work in the rain or spray or underwater without damage. I agree that the Go Pro is designed to a purpose, and it's good when used for that purpose, but it isn't an all-purpose camera. The other cameras wouldn't hold up very long in the rain and salt spray.

My bike is a Harley Sportster 883. I'd like to have a bigger bike, such as a Dyno, but don't have a garage in Maryland, and can't bear the thought of keeping a nice bike like that outdoors, even though I keep it well covered. It kills me to have to store my 883 that way, but I have no choice. But, I plan to ride mine until I wear it out, and the way I'm putting miles on it, that might be sooner than later.

Edited by - on

Chris Z
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2011 : 19:10:38

I would look at the Kodak Play Sport over at Sam's Club. It was $119 when I bought mine. It takes great video and 5 MP photos.

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/shop/product.jsp?productId=prod1970456&navAction=

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2011 : 21:06:55

Regardless of what camera(s) you get, you might consider a Gorillapod to secure it to a rail.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2011 : 05:54:52

Has anyone got video shot with a gopro that they can post?

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4312 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2011 : 07:43:22

My brother has one of the original GoPro's (approx 4 yrs old). Video is not too bad but the speed isn't accurate. He has some videos of him riding his Suzuki GSXR750 at a track day and when he's do 140 it looks like he's just cruising around at normal street speed. The newer HD cameras may provide better video.

Late last summer he went to Colorado to ride Trail Ridge Road. After attaching the camera to the handle bars and aiming it to what he thought was a good angle he made the ride. When he reviewed the video later the camera was not aimed where he thought and he had video that only looked out about 100 - 150 feet missing most of what he wanted to film.

Not having a view finder is a big deal.

[Edit: I just saw a note from May 5th that Best Buy just started carrying the GoPro cameras and accessories:

GoPro® HD Activity Cameras and Accessories Arrive in Best Buy® Stores Nationwide
World’s leading wearable and gear mountable camera, GoPro’s HD HERO® cameras are the latest addition to Best Buy’s expanding digital imaging selection in stores and on bestbuy.com

MINNEAPOLIS, MN & HALF MOON BAY, CA (May 5, 2011) –Best Buy Co., Inc. (NYSE:BBY) today announced the availability of several new products from the world’s leading activity camera company, GoPro. GoPro is internationally famous for producing some of the world’s highest performing wearable and gear mountable HD cameras. GoPro’s products are used by consumers and professional athletes and video producers alike to capture and share incredible first person perspectives of their favorite sports and activities. GoPro’s cameras are now available along with a selection of accessories at Best Buy stores nationwide. GoPro’s full assortment of products are available on bestbuy.com.

After looking at Best Buy's website I think I would order direct from GoPro. You get many more mounting accessories than ordering from Best Buy and for less money (or at least equal after shipping costs).

Edited by - GaryB on 05/08/2011 08:31:33

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2011 : 09:17:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 Has anyone got video shot with a gopro that they can post?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> I haven't used mine yet. I'm busy trying to get my boat in the water, but the manufacturer says it films in Hi Def. If I remember correctly, the Go Pro website has examples of video shot with a Go Pro camera.

I bought mine through Amazon. It appears that all the different mounts and extras are available there at a discount.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2011 : 14:47:18

I suspect that hte video on teh website is less amateurish than we would get using the same equipment. I guess I am looking for "independant testing" with first-hand testimonial.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2011 : 15:08:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 ...Not having a view finder is a big deal.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Amazon has a little removable LCD screen called the GoPro Bacpac for that purpose. They also have 63 customer reviews--mostly 5-stars. Maybe somebody in there used it on a boat...

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2011 : 17:49:13

I am sure that Gopro is a quality product, but for those of us that don't jump out of airplanes or dive, a waterproof(10 ft.), shock resistant, 1080p, $149 Kodak that has a screen and an optional remote ($13) or a 720p without a remote for $129 more than meets our needs.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2011 : 19:44:53

OK Dave, you have convinced me - a "real" multipurpose camera is likely better than the gopro for me, seeing as I don't even own a digital camera right now.

so searching the local camera chain I came across this one on sale - I think I may have to get it. Waterproof to 5 feet and films underwater for up to an hour. Hopefully I surface before then. Up to 10 hours of video on the right memory card. I wonder if I can plug it into the boat battery, 'cause I can't see its battery lasting that long. http://www.henrys.ca/55893-SANYO-VPC-E2-WATERPROOF-CAMERACORDER-BLUE-PANEL.aspx

Or I could just get the Kodak PlaySport... http://www.henrys.ca/59018-KODAK-ZX3-BLACK-PLAYSPORT-WATERPROOF-VIDEOCAMERA.aspx

I'll have to wander into the store and talk to someone.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2011 : 20:06:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 ...Up to 10 hours of video on the right memory card. I wonder if I can plug it into the boat battery, 'cause I can't see its battery lasting that long...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Good point... We old guys tend to think the same way... But remember that these things no longer have any real moving parts--like the motors that move the film and solenoids that open and close the shutter at 24 frames per second. And lithium batteries are pretty impressive. This whole game is changing faster than some of us can comprehend--including me. That most smart phones are better still cameras than my camera, and shoot pretty good sound video as well, sorta leaves me wondering what'll happen if I wait "another month" to buy one.

The Kodak sounds good--if you can rig a satisfactory mount. I think in the general case I'd like it to be above the stern-rail, looking forward, which might suggest a short pole clamped to the rail. However, I also prefer sailing videos that are level to the horizon (instead of the boat), so that suggest some sort of gimbal...

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2011 : 03:41:13

Mother's day put a Fujifilm XP in the game. Easily mounts on a gorrilla mount et.al. Waterproof to 5meters, Shockproof (drop to 4.9ft but not going to test it

) Freeze proof to -10c Dust proof(???) has a 4GB card.

[url="http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-cameras/fujifilm-finepix-xp20-green/4507-6501_7-34468869.html?tag=specs"]

[/url]

We paid $149 at Costco. Have yet to put real pics in it, Peggy is going through the manual/menus/widgets. Feels like a solid camera, std screw mount thread on base so it will fit all of our tripods/mounts.

[url="http://www.amazon.com/Pedco-UltraPod-Lightweight-Camera-Tripod/dp/B000ANGNN0/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1304937412&sr=8-3"]Here's the tripod[/url] we have (we have used the velcro strap to secured our cameras/flip video to a rail/pole/branch etc.) Works really well.

Paul

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2011 : 14:48:54

Kodak claims 10 hours of video on most models too, but that's also hard for me to believe. Great if it works, but you can pop a USB adapter into a 12v receptacle if it doesn't since most cameras charge over USB.

Edited by - on

Ryan L
Navigator

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USA
230 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2011 : 15:40:46

There is a view screen available for GoPros now. Sound is fine. They work incredibly well. Per request here are links to some amateur videos with shot on GoPros. The first is from a trip we took to Catalina last year. The underwater images are a bit fuzzy because we used the standard housing rather than the one specifically for scuba but it gives you an idea of what is possible. The second was mostly shot from GoPros mounted to our PWCs while working water safety at a surf contest. You can fast forward the first few minutes to get to the good stuff. The third gives you an idea of what else is possible with these cams...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNYfhCLCGSM
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=381297903665
http://vimeo.com/9563732

Edited by - on

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