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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Dock Line Size for C250?

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TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/19/2011 : 18:05:29

I'm putting this in the C250 Specific section because its lighter weight (vs. C25) might affect the answer somewhat.

I want to replace my dock lines and am looking for your advice on dock line size. By typical rules of thumb, 25' is right on the border between 3/8" and 1/2" nylon. While many will say to always go larger, the larger lines stretch less and also will not fit through the bottom of my cleats. So in order to use eye splices, I need to wrap 1/2" eye splices around the cleat twice, which can be a pain, especially when attaching both a stern and spring line to the same cleat. In contrast, 3/8" eye splices fit nicely through the bottom of the cleat and then over the horns.

So I'd like to use 3/8" if it is not completely inadequate.

I'd also like to hear your opinions of twist vs. braid. From what I see, 3/8" braid has breaking strength almost equal to 1/2" twist, so if I go with 3/8" it would almost certainly be braid. However, I also realize that braid is less elastic than twist, and that many people say to only use twist for dock lines.

Some other details: I have a C250WK, so the ballast is fixed and the keel is always down. Tidal swing in my river is typically 6', but I'm on a floating dock so I can leave minimal slack. In fact, I need to minimize slack to prevent too much fore/aft drifting when the ~2 kt tidal current reverses direction. This makes some of the lines very short, which also makes stretch an important consideration. Previous owner used 1/2"-5/8" nylon braid, which I reused last year. The 5/8" was way too thick (barely fit under the horns of the cleats), and 1/2" suffered the issues described above.

What do you guys use? What have you guys tried, but didn't like?

Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
PO of Take Five, 1998 Catalina 250WK #348 (relocated to Baltimore's Inner Harbor)
New owner of 2001 Catalina 34MkII #1535 Breakin' Away (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2011 : 18:23:31

I use all 3/8" lines on our WK. My bow & stern lines are 3/8" nylon 3 strand, and my spring lines are 3/8" braided. The reason for this is because I had both types available and couldn't see a reason to replace functional lines. When I replace them, I'll replace them all with 3/8" 3-strand.

I have larger line on board if I need it for a tow or something, but haven't ever used it. I've read that Jacques Cousteau anchored his ship in 10,000' of water with 3/8" nylon 3 strand just to prove that it can be done. I can't find the reference, but I remember reading about it somewhere several years ago.

Chafing gear is important if you think you're going to be in a blow, lines can saw themselves in two pretty quickly if there's enough movement. I see folks at my marina all the time who only have a single bow & stern line holding their boats to the dock. I always have at least bow, stern, fore & aft spring, and an off-side bow line to the "T" section of my dock to pull SL away from the dock so it rides free from touching the dock (most of the time, wind & tidal changes will move the boat but it's still nicely sprung so there's good shock absorption).

I think 1/2" line would be overkill, plus as you said, it makes it more difficult to get multiple lines on our cleats.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9082 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2011 : 19:06:39

1/2" is way too big. Part of what you want in a dockline is appropriate elasticity, so movement of the boat doesn't cause shock forces on the cleats. 3/8" or even 5/16" twisted nylon is, IMHO, just about right for this size boat. Nylon has built-in shock-absorbancy, while double-braided Dacron is created for the opposite--<i>minimal</i> stretch. I have felt the difference between nylon and Dacron just sitting in my boat at the dock--the Dacron lines cause very abrupt shocks with every little wave.

For a C-250, I'd go with 5/16" twisted nylon.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/19/2011 19:10:57

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2011 : 21:00:16

We use 3/8" double braid Nylon dock lines from New England ropes for dock lines and spring lines. On the dock lines we use mooring snubbers.

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2011 : 06:29:35

I have 1/2" twisted nylon on mine. Why? Cuz that's what was on sale that day at Walmart. Every time I've gone out to the boat, it's been tied up right where I left it so, it must work. It fits under the cleats.

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superbob
Navigator

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USA
200 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2011 : 06:42:46

I use 3/8 in fair weather. Come rock and roll winter storms I switch to 1/2 inch if for nothing else but peace of mind.

Page 227 West Marine catalogue, The West Advisor:

"We recommend 1/8" diameter for every 9' of boat length. Larger lines will wear longer but stretch less."

The West Advisor goes on to recommend:

Boat length: Up to 27' - 3/8 inch

28'-31' 7/16 inch

32 - 36' 1/2 inch.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2011 : 07:28:21

I've used 1/2 inch lines for 23 years on my C25. For economy, I'm now considering using 15 foot 3/8 inch bow/stern lines and 30 foot 1/2 inch spring lines. Power boaters here don't seem to recognize "no wake zone" signs so the shock loads on springs can be considerable.

I use 25 foot, 5/8 inch mooring pendant however.

Edited by - aeckhart on 05/20/2011 07:33:43

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3468 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2011 : 09:05:40

I also use 1/2" dock lines. I did not give it much thought when I bought replacement lines and I just went with what the PO used. I will tell you that given time, there is chafe/wear on the cleated line to the boat. What I do is since the dock cleat is so large, I will after a year or so, put a wrap arund that dock cleat so a fresh unchafed area is available as I make up to my boat cleats. The chafing is more on my boat's aft cleat to the finger slip which is a much shorter length line compared to the length made up to my bot's forward cleat.

Edited by - OLarryR on 05/20/2011 09:07:15

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2011 : 16:08:45

I use 3/8" dock lines, a combination of 3-strand and double braid, and 1/2 inch spring lines. Never had a problem. We are on a "2 boats between fingers" pier, so we use 2 bow lines, a single stern line and a spring line attached to a mid-finger cleat looped over the bow cleat and the genoa winch. The stern line and one of the bow lines are 3-strand, and the other bow line is double braid. I'm considering replacing the double braid with 3-strand.

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TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2011 : 17:45:14

Thanks for all your advice. Today I went to Eastern Marine and returned the 1/2" double braid (all except one that I already used) and bought a bunch of 3/8" twist instead.

Because I was nice to the marina manager last year, she gave me the only single slip in the whole marina in my size range (just inside a T-dock). So after relying on fenders all last year, this year I should have enough cleats to keep the boat from rubbing the fenders, although I'll probably leave them out just in case:

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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.