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Standing Rigging

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/20/2011 : 07:06:01

So I raised the mast last night (YAY!!) and my inspection of the standing rigging showed no meathooks, and no signs of corrosion (freshwater = less corrosion worries) however I did find a couple of bends in the wires, and most disconcerting, bent threaded rod on a shroud.

I have never replaced our standing rigging (3 years of ownership).

Under tension the airplane wire all straightens up nicely and you can't see any kinks. The bent threaded stud is another story.

CD sells the kit for $539 plus a ghastly shipping fee (Backstay not included) Is it time? Or should I just replace the one shroud and not sweat out the other stuff too much?

"Iris"
1984 FK/SR #4040
http://frosthaus.blogspot.com/

Take a minute to register your boat with the association!!
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/owner_questionnaire.htm

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2011 : 07:13:40

I'd pay for a rigger to check it out. For that kind of money, a rigger can make it all good. Standing rigging should never be bought out of a box in my opinion. Riggers are like doctors. But at least they make house calls.

sten

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2011 : 07:40:32

I talked to my rigger about replacing my 16-y-o stays (salt water) and told him what CD's cost... He said to get theirs and he'd install it. Turned out he had to shorten the backstay a little, but otherwise he said it went on like a glove, and the quality was top-notch.

If you have closed-body SS turnbuckles, it might be original, which would be 27 years. Open-body bronze would suggest it has been replaced. Stainless suffers crevice corrosion that is essentially invisible, even to a rigger. People use x-ray to detect it on big boats--not very economic on ours. Waiting for meat-hooks to appear is OK with wire halyards--I wouldn't use that technique with standing rigging. But I'm a notorious chicken...

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/20/2011 07:41:08

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2011 : 08:01:00

Thanks guys - no closed body turnbuckles. I am getting a quote from our local guys as well. Also contemplating taking down the mast and hauling the rigging to the riggers for an inspection - but I'd rather not. Maybe go the season and then take it in in the fall. As i said nothing looks like its about to fail or anything, but then it never does...

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3462 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2011 : 09:24:00

Good posting thread, riggers vs CD kit, etc. I am also contemplating replacing my standing rigging. It mostly depends when I pull the boat out for a multi-year paint job. That is the only time my boat is out of the water for more than say an annual pressure wash. I have 4 1/2 years on my last paint job and last fall, there was more slime buildup that normal. I was considering getting a pressure wash in late spring this year and see how the slime build-up looks and then consider if I go to two pressure washes this year and maybe delay bottom painting for another year. But if I go for the bottom painting this Fall, then that would probably be a good time to also consider changing the standing rigging. My rigging looks okay from a non-professional visual inspection. There are one or two slightly bent threaded rods that have been that way as long as I have owned the boat and I am sure were that way for years before then. The boat s in the water all year-round and has been with PO in freshwater for 4 years and now an addl 4 1/2 years with me.

Curious, anyone know if a rigger can change the standing rigging while the boat is in the water without dropping the mast ? One shroud at a time, I would think t is possible but probably not recommended. The mast can be dropped down in the finger slip but it then blocks part of the main deck and I know the marina would not be pleased with that arrangement. So...best course of action is that I coordinate with a bottom painting job and since multi-year paint lasts for me and PO approximately 4-5 years, it means either this year or the next or else wait another 4-5 years to change the standing rigging. I suspect it is the original rigging.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2011 : 10:15:46

Larry, my marina has a few spots that will park longer boats that are often used for folks working on their boats. They're closer to the parking lot. Maybe your marina might have a similar space available periodically? I'm thinking a 40 foot slip for a day or two might work???? Offer the marina out of your concern for the well being of everyone nearby!!!! Something like: "I have to take my mast down. I'd like to avoid inconveniencing others...." Make it a statement not a request.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2011 : 10:16:44

I just got off the phone with the local alternative and they are working up a quote based on info here. A special thanks to the guys who posted the manuals and photos of mastheads.

The locals are suggesting just doing the shrouds (where problems were noted) for now, and leaving teh forestay and backstay for winter. They should be in touch shortly with prices. They say that they are "very confident" that they can beat CD's prices - and they can make a trip to the boat to check that all is well and do an inspection.

I should hear back from them after the weekend. It is a long weekend here so I suspect that means Tuesday.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2011 : 10:24:04

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 Larry, my marina has a few spots that will park longer boats that are often used for folks working on their boats. They're closer to the parking lot. Maybe your marina might have a similar space available periodically? I'm thinking a 40 foot slip for a day or two might work???? Offer the marina out of your concern for the well being of everyone nearby!!!! Something like: "I have to take my mast down. I'd like to avoid inconveniencing others...." Make it a statement not a request.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

In our little marina the common courtesy is to just pull the boat forward an extra 2 feet in the slip so it doesn't overhang the dock. Easy to do with a springline.The mast when laid on the pulpit and pushpit doesn't have a lot of overhang. The pic below is in the bottom of one of the locks on the Trent where SWMBO has just spilled her coffee on the foredeck (and is no longer tending her line) in it you can see the overhang you face with the mast laid on deck.

Edited by - Prospector on 05/20/2011 10:24:58

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3462 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2011 : 15:42:41

moving the boat forward in the slip is a possibility. I am in a 32 foot slip. I have some things to think about and then one day this season, got to make a call to a rigger and to investigate replacing rigging in more detail

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2011 : 15:48:14

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">That looks like one heck of a first step Chris!

Edited by - OJ on 05/20/2011 15:53:07

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2011 : 18:31:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OLarryR
 Curious, anyone know if a rigger can change the standing rigging while the boat is in the water without dropping the mast ? One shroud at a time, I would think this possible but probably not recommended...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It's probably doable but would be slower and will most likely cost you more money due to the extra time necessary to install them while hanging in a bosun's chair.

If you decide to do it while out for the bottom job you might want to have them measure all the rigging while the boat is still in the water. I've heard the boat may distort while sitting on the stands and might cause an issue if the rigging is measured on the stands. Might end up with some rigging too long or too short after the boat is back in the water and settles back to it's natural dimensions.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2011 : 18:55:25

I was thinking about this... I wonder if I could put a strop around the masthead, hook a loadstrap onto it, and ratchet it tight, then remove teh shroud, leaving the loadstrap in its place for a day or four while the rigger made up new shrouds. Replace the shroud, switch sides with the loadstrap, and replace the other shroud.

Those straps are forty feet long, and take 15000 pounds. Should be fine as long as I leave the boat in the slip, and keep the lowers on. OTOH, its an easy mast to drop and raise.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2011 : 05:25:19

I just replaced all of my standing rigging. I used the Cd kit. Top quality and fit perfectly. They now use 316 stainless I believe. Very helpfull on the phone as my for-stay is a fixed length for the roller furler so I used a For-stay from the tall rig and cut it to length and added a stat-lock fitting on the bottom. This is how my Fur-lex gets mounted. My boat is an 87 with open turnbuckles but I did not know if the rigging was ever replaced so for piece of mine I changed it all. I did drop the mast to do this. Its not as scary as you would think but those old shrouds use to make me nervous when I was out sailing hard. My suggestion is to replace them and have peace of mine.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2011 : 05:37:27

Also, if your boat has been in the water for 4 1/2 years, coming out only for pressure washes, you should plan on at least 2-3 weeks on the hard drying time after prepping for new paint before applying new bottom paint.

Good to know about the CD kit.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2011 : 06:18:11

If you are really concerned about the bent T bolts, they are easily replaced and available from WM etc.

Paul

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2011 : 08:59:55

The T studs are usually bent when the mast is raised or lowered without loosening the upper and aft lowers a few turns. The mast kicks up a little as it pivots over the aft end of its foot and wedges and bends the fitting.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3462 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2011 : 09:40:31

All good advice. I do have a mast mate and was tempted to replace one shround at a time but.....I see perhaps if i had to chage the steaming light, I would go half-way up but I don't see myselgf going all the way up and not for a rigging job. I'll leave that to the professionals and/or drop the mast and work with a CD kit. But if I am going to change the rigging...I am almost positive I am going to leave it for a rigger. Maybe I will keep the boat in the mtn yard for 2 weeks and can get the bottom paint and rigging done at same time..then when i get out from work, i can do some other things ...there is always somethig to do when the boat is out of the water.

I have a CDI furler and I recall talking to someone (maybe it was the mfrs rep) at the Annapolis Boat show regarding CDI and I did not realize that the forward stay is the original and the furler is just encasing it. I thought the stay just was the short portion at the very top that then attaches to the furler. So, it looks like the entire CD kit can be used but I want to discuss with a rigger first before deciding on getting the kit. I know there are different fittings that can be used to make up the stays and i want to find out the pro/con to the different fittings.

We keep discussing this issue...this may just be the thing that pushes me out of the procrastination state.

Lot's of good advice. Looks like a number of ways to approach the rigging replacement and seems the different approaches all have successful outcomes. Comes down to personal preference and gut feeling what one feels works best for them.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2011 : 10:52:42

CDI furlers for the C-25 were designed to utilize the existing forestay.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2011 : 11:43:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 If you are really concerned about the bent T bolts, they are easily replaced and available from WM etc.

Paul
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My problem isn't the T-bolts, its the stud that is swaged onto the end of the shroud.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2011 : 12:01:56

Larry,

Dropping the mast isn't hard (unless the winds blowing 15-20) and would make the issue of changing the standing rigging safer and an easy DIY job.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2011 : 11:53:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 ...Dropping the mast isn't hard (unless the winds blowing 15-20) and would make the issue of changing the standing rigging safer and an easy DIY job.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">And I suspect most riggers would take one look and drop the mast. On a 40+ footer, maybe they'd get creative, but the C-25 mast is too easy to drop--no point in working from a bosun's chair.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2011 : 12:55:00

If the stud that is swaged onto the end of the shroud is bent, you will most likely need to replace the entire shroud. If the bend is very slight and does not affect the threaded connection to the turnbuckle, you might be okay. Personally I'd replace it.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2011 : 16:41:35

We are on teh same page David. Which brings me back to where I started. The CD kit is $530 IIRC. Local Rigger is under $100 per side, but will go cheaper if I reuse my turnbuckles, t-bolts, etc.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2011 : 19:26:10

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 ...Dropping the mast isn't hard (unless the winds blowing 15-20) and would make the issue of changing the standing rigging safer and an easy DIY job.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">And I suspect most riggers would take one look and drop the mast. On a 40+ footer, maybe they'd get creative, but the C-25 mast is too easy to drop--no point in working from a bosun's chair.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I agree Dave. My rigger said I could save some money if I dropped the mast myself. They will help me put it back up. I doubt they would have climbed the mast today with the winds we had.

After today I modify my statement that dropping the mast isn't that hard!!!! Fall, Spring, or Winter dropping the mast isn't that hard.

The heat and humidity kicked my butt today. Nearly passed out a couple of times. Too many years living a sedentary lifestyle. Luckily Kent came by and helped me get the mast down.

The actual mechanics of dropping the mast is not hard but the prep took forever because I kept having to stop and cool off. I didn't drink enough water before I got started and along with being out of shape I really paid the price.

Actually dropping the mast took no more than a minute. Probably less. Getting it in the storage position and secured maybe another five.

Edited by - GaryB on 05/22/2011 19:34:38

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2011 : 20:06:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 ...The heat and humidity kicked my butt today. Nearly passed out a couple of times. Too many years living a sedentary lifestyle. Luckily Kent came by and helped me get the mast down...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">You mean you were trying to do it yourself until Kent helped out?? That's not what I had in mind! Four guys, in my book, until you've proven to yourself you can do it with fewer. Then recruit the fourth anyway.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2011 : 03:40:50

No, my wife and I were going to do it until Kent offered to help. I've done it by myself before but with the higher than normal winds I was leary of doing it by myself.

It turned out to be non-event. We waited for a lull in the wind and down it came. A I mentioned in another post, it took less than a minute to get it down.

Today I will have 2 riggers and myself to put it back up.

Edited by - GaryB on 05/23/2011 03:44:01

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