Association Forum - Selling a 250

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Selling a 250

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

AADIVER
Admiral

Member Avatar

USA
966 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/01/2011 : 22:16:30

I guess the retail market for used 250's is real weak. My 2001's been for sale now for almost 6 months on Yachtworld and Craig's List. Not one offer, not even a bottom feeder bid. BUC retail value is listed at $18,000.00. My listed price is $16,500.00. She's brokered by Catalina Yacht Anchorage in Marina del Rey, CA. I'm willing to accept less, but without an offer I can't counter. Any suggestions?

Frank Farmer
Long Beach, CA
aa.diver@verizon.net
http://mysite.verizon.net/aa.diver

PRETTY PENNY
'01 C-250 WK, Hull #558

Edited by - on

Captdon
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
15 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2011 : 01:45:32

I was VERY serious about buying your C-250 after reading your earlier posting a couple weeks ago, but not having a trailer for a trailerable boat is a tough deal. A new trailer is $6,200. from Trail-Rite, and only slightly less from Baja Trailers,(but has no mast raising system). You advised me your rock bottom price of $15K, and my bank advised me loan value was $13K, so I've moved on.

"Well, my PRETTY PENNY's been for sale now for almost five months beginning last December. She's being brokered by Catalina Yachts in Marina del Rey, but not exclusively. She's also listed on Craig's List (http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/boa/2361445514.html) Initial listing price was $17,500, now reduced to #16,500. My rock bottom net is no less than ten grand. To date, not one offer, not even low balls from bottom feeders. If she's not sold by the end of June, I can't afford to keep her AND my "new" '83 C-30. So what would YOU do in this situation? Any and all advice, please. Thank you."

Don

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2272 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2011 : 03:53:25

Everything has a selling price. Sailboat prices may be temporarily depressed, which means you can wait it out or lower the price.

If your broker is not willing/able to pull up comparables from soldboats.com to suggest price adjustments (which, if there are not enough C250s, might have to include recent trends with other similar boats in your area), you might have the wrong broker.

Captdon seems to fit your category of bottom feeder offer. The key question here is whether he has found another boat to fit his pricing criteria. If he has not, his offering price might be unreasonably low. If he has, that's a sign that the market is a lot softer than your expectations. FYI, if this C250 is a wing keel, it does not fit most people's definition of trailerable boat. Yes, people do it, but it is not the norm with the WK model.

Edited by - TakeFive on 06/02/2011 03:59:11

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2011 : 06:56:43

Last year, I considered selling Kaija. I talked with a broker and he was able to look up what boats of my vintage ('99 C250, WK) actually sold for on Yachtworld. He explained that it was in a part of the site only accessible to dealers, etc. At that time, the going price for my boat with a trailer was around $17k.

You may have to bite the bullet on this one Frank and list it at your bottom line price.

Edited by - John Russell on 06/02/2011 06:57:15

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2272 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2011 : 07:07:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 ...I talked with a broker and he was able to look up what boats of my vintage ('99 C250, WK) actually sold for on Yachtworld....<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
This is the soldboats.com website that I was referring to. It is run by Yachtworld and is only accessible to brokers. My broker used it to help me determine offering prices when I was buying a year ago. In my mind, I did not really care what owners were asking, I wanted to know what buyers were actually paying. That's what soldboats.com provides.

FYI, NADA lists the range on a 2001 250WK as $11,730-$13,310. A 2001 250WB shows up at $11,070-$12,570. Some people trust NADA's estimates, others don't.

Edited by - TakeFive on 06/02/2011 07:24:30

DavidCrosby
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
237 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2011 : 10:13:19

Frank,

I bought my 2002 C250 WK #614 (with trailer) 13 months ago. I paid the asking price of $15,200. Search on this forum and you will find the listing. I know the boat was listed a year earlier and the post was revised dropping the price. I found the boat when the modification of the post brought it to the top of the swap meet area of this forum. I do not know what the original asking price was.

If you want to sell the boat, you will probably need to substantially lower the price. The lack of a trailer probably restricts you to a local market and I am sure there is no lack of competition for buyers in the Long Beach, CA area.

I would also suggest listing at the Sailing Texas website, I have successfully sold two boats using this site. It is free to list and they simply ask for a small donation if you successfully sell your boat. The site name tends to make people think that it is a local site - but it appears to get nation wide attention. Note: I have no affiliation with this site. Just wanted to comment because it seems to work.

http://www.sailingtexas.com/cboats.html

Good Luck,

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2011 : 11:54:58

It's the other side of the country, but an '01 WK has a "deal pending" on Yachtworld--listed for $14,500, apparently without a trailer. That's substantially less than the similar-vintage C-250s listed there. But that sale price, presumably less than $14.5, will go on the record.

Many buyers, especially those who haven't picked a particular model of boat, have ceiling prices above which they won't even look, regardless of whether they might be able to bargain down to their range. $10K is a common ceiling, and $15K might be another. (We're a base-10 species.) $14.x may have gotten that boat below somebody's $15K ceiling, gotten that buyer to go look, and may have resulted in a sale close to that price. If the boat is really sharp (no clutter) and you can get somebody to look, emotions can work for you from there.

I'm sorta guessing here--this is a black art... But these are basic principles in the tough real estate market, and probably apply to boats as well--attractive pricing and curb appeal. Get them to come, and then get their juices flowing.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 06/02/2011 12:03:18

gpc
Deckhand

Members Avatar

17 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2011 : 12:04:11

When all is said and done, the '01 WK in Havre de Grace, MD will sell for approximately $12k. Boat is in very good shape, one owner, tiller pilot, marine head, etc...

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2272 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2011 : 12:49:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DavidCrosby
 Frank,

I bought my 2002 C250 WK #614 (with trailer) 13 months ago. I paid the asking price of $15,200...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I know that boat. I went down to Bolling AFB to look it over. I was already far along in negotiations with a different guy who was having seller's remorse, so it was my backup in case my deal fell through. DavidCrosby got an excellent boat at an outstanding price. On paper (because it included a trailer) it was a better price than I paid for my boat, but mine had some extras that were worth extra money to me and I did not really need a trailer was was happy to pay a little less without the trailer.

[url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23174"]I had previously urged[/url] Frank to price this boat as close to his bottom line as possible to get traffic through. DavidCrosby's boat is a good example of successfully using that strategy. Bill Swanson, the PO, decided to drop his price to the absolute lowest he was willing to accept. He got a lot of traffic, including me. I drove three hours two days after a snowstorm in February because I knew the boat would not last long at that price. He had numerous offers but rejected them all until someone offered asking price, because he had studied the market and knew the price was fair (actually a little below market). Right, David?

The strategy ultimately worked for Bill because it got traffic in (including me), people saw a well cared for boat, and ultimately realized that the price was more than fair.

Same thing for the boat in Havre de Grace. I know from private messages with gpc that he had it in his eyesights before it even arrived at Tidewater because of its price. He was ready to buy the day the owner delivered it to the broker, so long as it passed his inspection. Since that deal has not closed yet, I should not say any more.

But in general, people pull up Yachtworld listings in order of price, and don't even bother to look at boats that are significantly above their range. I learned this the hard way - as I said above, I wasted several months and hundreds of miles traveled by ignoring asking price and offering what Soldboats told me the boats were worth. What I learned was that a lot of owners are dreaming about their boats' value and weren't worth my time and travels. I won't do that again. Pricing your boat at a premium above its realistic value merely prevents your boat from ever being seen by potential buyers.

Edited by - TakeFive on 06/02/2011 14:16:05

piseas
Former Treasurer

Members Avatar

USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2011 : 15:12:33

Frank, maybe this is an omen and Pretty Penny doesn't want you to leave Catalina 25 Association.

In fact and I am sure many members have missed you, yours truly included.

With no other 25's nearby, its pretty lonely around here.

I wish the best Frank and hope you find a buyer soon. She is one heck of a buy and needs someone deserving of her stature.
Steve A

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2011 : 17:16:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 Many buyers, especially those who haven't picked a particular model of boat, have ceiling prices above which they won't even look, regardless of whether they might be able to bargain down to their range.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Absolutely. As I suspect most sailboat owners do, I'm always looking for my next boat which is how I came to own my C25. I perused the local listings searching for a 25 to 30 foot boat then sorted by price from lowest to highest. Fortunately, I came across my C25 before someone else did, but I could have easily been an S2 or O'Day owner if the price were in the vicinity of what I paid for my C25.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2011 : 18:49:14

I have to sympathize with Frank, however--a few years ago his boat would have sold considerably higher... Suddenly, he has to wonder whether there's somebody out there at any price. Should he drop it dramatically if nobody will bite, or wait at a higher level for somebody to come along? What is the magic level? How many thousands should he risk leaving on the table? Tough questions.

The MD boat, while distant and anecdotal, is an example, however, of how to break through a log-jammed market and resolve the issue. A few buyers are natural bottom-feeders and will make very bold offers on something priced way above their ceilings... Most, however, see an asking price as an indication of a buyer's expectations, and shop accordingly. I personally never considered looking at boats 30+% above my ceiling and offering 50-60% of asking to see what would happen. I'm not interested in being disrespectful or doing that kind of bargaining. If a boat is priced significantly higher than I think I need to (or are able to) pay, I won't go there.

So, I'll suggest that waiting for "any offer" with a much lower "bottom line" in mind is likely to be unproductive in this market. You need to get people's attention with a price that distinguishes you but is indicative of what you need, as Rick described above. Then you might get some "respectful" offers you can work with. (If they're not respectful, don't work with them.) In a much stronger market, I priced Passage aggressively, and sold pretty close to asking, very quickly. A higher price would probably have taken longer--probably through a winter storage season--and led to more aggressive offers and ultimately the same or lower selling price. It's obviously tougher now, but the principles still apply.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 06/02/2011 18:52:25

djbano
1st Mate

Members Avatar

67 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2011 : 22:08:39

I bought my 98 WK at the beginning of last summer. It was in very nice shape with some good mods, lots of optional/extra gear, seller threw in his toolbox The only thing missing was aftermarket electronics. Came with a trailer. I don't know if there is any etiquette for posting the sale price but below Pretty Penny's rock bottom 15k. The economic news seems to be getting worse and home values seem to be generally tanking in most places. I would think a non-essential items (for some, not me) like boats are doing worse. In a past life when I used to sell cars we would always say that a car is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

There is a 08 water ballast with trailer that sounds brand new on ebay with a buy it now price of 23k. Certainly does not seem to have the numerous upgrades of P.P. but a basically new boat with trailer for that price would indicate that your asking too much. I think an 01 with a trailer is probably a 14-16k boat in this market. Maybe you should try putting it up on ebay with a low teens or even 15k reserve an see what happens.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2011 : 07:03:36

You can only imagine how this market is impacting Catalina trying to sell new boats.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2011 : 18:35:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by gpc
 When all is said and done, the '01 WK in Havre de Grace, MD will sell for approximately $12k. Boat is in very good shape, one owner, tiller pilot, marine head, etc...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I agree. When I was looking for my C25 3-1/2 years ago they were going for around 9k - 11.5k. So with a few more years on the clock the '01 C250's are probably close to or slightly above where my boat was at that time.

Since it has newer styling I would think $12k is probably pretty close.

Edited by - GaryB on 06/03/2011 18:36:52

Bob Jack
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
58 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2011 : 10:32:21

FYI- I bought a 2006 250 W/B brand new (dealer demo)in Jan 0f 2007 in Florida. I was the first titled owner. Sometime in 09 I listed her with a broker/dealer in Punta Gorda for 24K (no trailer). The boat was kept on a lift behind my house, was lightly used and had a pristine bottom that had never been painted.New VHF,Mast mounted antenna, and new stereo with cockpit speakers. Very Clean boat.

This listing produced a few lookers and tire kickers-nothing more.After one year I called the broker to de-list the boat and they didn't even try to dissuade me. He seemed demoralized and said they just weren't selling, even though the 24K number came from them.
Soooo... I disconnected from them and decided to get in front of the curve.Ilowered my asking price to 18K and independently put it a over the web.Craigs List, Texas Sailboats and anyother place I could think of.
I was very aggresive refreshing my listings every few days or weeks.
Activity increased right away. It wasn't overnight but I sold the boat last November for $17,777.00.
So if the question is "Whats a pristine 06 250 W/B with no trailer worth?"I think it worth about 18K.
Hope this helps

Edited by - on

superbob
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
200 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2011 : 11:51:51

Passion Yachts in Portland Ore lists an '04 250 for $24,900. No indication if there's a trailer nor if WK or WB (likely the former). They've installed a shower in the head (6 gallon hotwater tank) and otherwise well equipped.

http://www.yachtworld.com/leaving_yw.cgi?url=http://passion-yachts.com/inventory.html&brokerurl=passion-yachts

Edited by - on

Mike013
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
64 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2011 : 12:13:56

How valid are the NADA estimates for the resale value of sailboats?

http://www.nadaguides.com/Boats/2009/Catalina-Yachts/Sailboats

I have a 2006 C250 WK with a Trail-Rite trailer with the mast lowering system. The NADA estimates seem higher than some of the quotes I've seen in this post.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

Members Avatar

USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2011 : 13:06:19

My 03 WK had a range from $15k - $17k. It did not ask about a trailer but I dont have one. I paid about $20k 4 years ago. Mine is NOT up for sale.

Steve A
PS. Frank, a guy at my marina asked me if I like my C250 which of course I said I loved it. He was interested in buying one. I gave him the Catalina link to see your boat. Not sure if you want me to give him your direct phone or not. Let me know.

Edited by - piseas on 06/08/2011 13:08:41

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.