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Headsail--75%--85% opinions

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labsonboard
Deckhand

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11 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/07/2011 : 11:41:41

I have an '83 FK TR with a 150%, a 110% and a storm jib. I often am overpowered with the 110 and 2 reefs in the main but the storm jib seems too little and progress is painfully slow to wind. While there are times the double reef and storm are even too much canvas I find I'm often in wind between the 110 and the storm jib. I'm thinking of buying a middle sail but am torn between 75, 80 and 85%. I see Catalina Direct has a 75% 7oz. sail for $552.

Any opinions out there?

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2011 : 12:30:16

You seem to be getting your money's worth out of the tall rig!

When I reef and use a 60% storm jib, I can sail comfortably in strong gusts or dangerous winds up to about 30 kt. Your second reef should reduce sail to flatten the boat and let you beat to windward.

What happens when you are overpowered? Does the boat round up? Do you heel excessively and the crew wants to quit?

Edited by - JohnP on 06/07/2011 12:30:52

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2011 : 13:49:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by labsonboard
 While there are times the double reef and storm are even too much canvas I find I'm often in wind between the 110 and the storm jib.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Where do you sail? Cape Horn?

Edited by - on

labsonboard
Deckhand

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11 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2011 : 14:02:46

Seems like it sometimes. 0-40 knots in minutes. It's a large mountain lake in Montana. One time the boat next to me noted 42knots of wind but I think I've seen as much or more at other times. When I am 20+ miles downwind in a big blow it would be nice to have an option without resorting to the slow storm jib.

When overpowered I have excessive weather helm, heeling and some rounding up which is reduced by sail trim tricks. I know a smaller headsail isn't supposed to help weather helm but less heeling will improve steering.

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2011 : 14:36:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by labsonboard
 I have an '83 FK TR with a 150%, a 110% and a storm jib. I often am overpowered with the 110 and 2 reefs in the main but the storm jib seems too little and progress is painfully slow to wind. While there are times the double reef and storm are even too much canvas I find I'm often in wind between the 110 and the storm jib. I'm thinking of buying a middle sail but am torn between 75, 80 and 85%. I see Catalina Direct has a 75% 7oz. sail for $552.

Any opinions out there?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

have you tried head sail alone?

Edited by - on

labsonboard
Deckhand

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11 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2011 : 14:55:26

That's a bit like headsail and storm jib. My issue is that I want more sail than a storm jib--not less.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2011 : 15:01:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by PCP777
 have you tried head sail alone?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">My thought exactly... Your 110 has a much lower center of heeling forces than your main, and probably produces 2/3 of your drive. Move the cars back to flatten it and let the top twist off. You won't point quite as high, but your helm will probably be virtually neutral and the boat will stand up to puffs. Try it out if you haven't already--maybe somewhere less than 20 miles downwind from home.

Next thought: Your first reef gives you essentially a standard rig main. Your second reef is roughly equivalent to the SR's first reef. In your extreme conditions, maybe you want a third reef, which you could use with the 110 if you don't like the feel of the 110 alone. As I said, your main has a lot more to do with your heeling and less with your speed than your headsail.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 06/07/2011 15:01:50

labsonboard
Deckhand

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11 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2011 : 15:11:16

PCP777-- Sorry I misread your post and thought you meant mainsail alone. No I don't sail with the headsail alone in a blow. I believe that would be a lot stress on the mast at the masthead but who knows.

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2011 : 19:09:19

Sounds to me like you should be watching for those windlines and playing your mainsheet. Forgive me if I am wrong, but it sounds like a fishermans reef needs to be added to your skills toolbox.

Once we get up around 30 knots we reduce sail on Iris to a 110% Jib and a double-reefed main. We are in a standard rig. If it is squally, we sail the windward leg close to the wind in the lulls and let out the main for teh squalls. With the higher windspeed we don't loose too much of our pointing ability, and the boat stays (mostly) upright. We have also missed a squall line, been flattened, and watched the gas tank float out of the gas locker, retrieving it just before it floated out of the cockpit.

Thats fun sailing.

Are you getting strong winds coming down a canon or from between buildings - someplace consistent and predictable?

Edited by - Prospector on 06/07/2011 19:11:31

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2011 : 07:11:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by labsonboard
 PCP777-- Sorry I misread your post and thought you meant mainsail alone. No I don't sail with the headsail alone in a blow. I believe that would be a lot stress on the mast at the masthead but who knows.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You'll find that you can get some great sailing with head sail alone on a C-25, nice and comfortable without much to manage. Much of the drive comes from the head sail, much of the heel comes from the main. next time you feel like reducing sail try it.

Edited by - on

kentwm
Navigator

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101 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2011 : 08:25:17

The last two times I have been out, I have used the 110 headsail only. It makes it an easy sail when the winds are in the 15-20 mph range. Now, if I were racing we would be using the main and possible the 150 and keeping the heal in check by trimming the sails.

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PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2011 : 08:32:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kentwm
 The last two times I have been out, I have used the 110 headsail only. It makes it an easy sail when the winds are in the 15-20 mph range. Now, if I were racing we would be using the main and possible the 150 and keeping the heal in check by trimming the sails.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Typically, if the wind is plus 18 to 20 I just go headsail only, 135 rolled out or in lesser wind if I want to keep things smooth if kids are on board. The only drawback is that the boat wants to do a 720 when you tack.

Edited by - PCP777 on 06/08/2011 08:36:08

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2011 : 19:29:45

85% and a single reef in a double reefable main for 12 years on San Francisco Bay. Worked just great. My BIG headsail was the 110% I used in the winter! Standard rig.

One fleet member here had a sail as small as your jib, and was fine just reaching around, but I thought it much too small to do any work to windward. You already know what "too small" is...

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