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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.
I need a cleat to hold the jib sheet after tightening. I don't think I can pull it enough to release it if the jib is full. What does everyone use after the winch to hold and control the jib sheet?
1998 Catalina 250WK Ravaging Albemarle Sound,NC
I spent most of my money on boats and beer, the rest I just wasted.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Sloop Smitten</i> <br /> <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Commonly used on the C25. They also sell hardware to raise the cam cleat up a little + wedges to angle it towards the winch. Dave is also correct, it can take a lot of umfh to release the sheet under heavy winds.
I have cleats behind the sheet winches, however I added these Winchers and now use them more often than not. I did have to change the size of the sheets for them to work properly. Originally had 3/8", switched to 5/16" and they hold very well. The sheet can be taken in without pulling the sheet out and a simple pull upwards releases the sheet for letting out.
I throw it around a horn cleat - one round turn, to a half hitch over the aft horn. 3 wraps on the winch takes the load, and I can throw it or release it in 2 seconds with one hand. A jam cleat would work well with the wedged horn facing forward - one round turn and only hitch it if you are going to be on one tack for awhile.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Dave5041</i> <br />I throw it around a horn cleat - one round turn, to a half hitch over one horn. 3 wraps on the winch takes the load, and I can throw it or release it in 2 seconds with one hand. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> With a half-hitch how do you get it off with one hand. I do have a horned cleat now. I found this on CD
Cam Cleat Schaefer Ball Bearing
Product #: Z2438
Price: $22.28
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Has Harken's patent expired or something? These cleats look very similar to the Harken cleat at substantially less money. They have the same lightweight spring design that make for an easy to open cam when the line is cleated. Sold each.
Many cleat designs require you to drag the line through the cleat to open the cams. Once the line is cleated it is difficult to remove under load.
These cleats work well because: The cams are suspended on ball bearings for minimal friction Low friction allows use of very lightweight springs so it's easy for the line to open the cams Slick hard-coat anodized aluminum and curved top surface allows the line to slip into and open the cams with just a gentile downward pull <b>Cleat and un-cleat a line from the other side of the cockpit with a flick of the wrist </b>Handles line from 1/8" to 1/2" in diameter Safe working load: 300 pounds Suitable for control lines and to secure a halyard or sheet downstream of a winch Same 1-1/2" mounting hole spacing as the Harken 150 and many other cleats Fits Harken's cleat risers for use as jib sheet and halyard cleats downstream of a winch
The minimal load is taken by the round turn. I hold the free sheet between fingers and palm, push the top of the hitch up with my thumb and slip enough line under it to flip the hitch off the horn
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Dave5041</i> <br />The minimal load is taken by the round turn. I hold the free sheet between fingers and palm, push the top of the hitch up with my thumb and slip enough line under it to flip the hitch off the horn <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I will give it a try Saturday. I am sailing up to Elizabeth City Shipyard for a keel cable replacement and some other work. Maybe painting.
Good cam cleats are fine, I just don't bother with them. If I changed, it would be to jam cleats since the are less abrasive to the line, have no moving parts, and are cheaper. They have less range in line diameter, but I hardly ever use 1/8" sheets.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Davy J</i> <br />I have cleats behind the sheet winches, however I added these Winchers and now use them more often than not. I did have to change the size of the sheets for them to work properly. Originally had 3/8", switched to 5/16" and they hold very well. The sheet can be taken in without pulling the sheet out and a simple pull upwards releases the sheet for letting out.
I second the vote for these. They work extremely well and I never use the horn cleat behind the winch. I've never had the line slip out, even under load in 20+ winds. 2 thumbs up!
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">That's what I use as well Joe, but when you're to weather and it's 15 to 20 it can be e bear to pull the sheet free.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Dave, I take a couple of wraps around the winch before I place the tail in the cam cleat. To release it I pull up on the sheet. All the hold is in the horizontal plane. Very little in the vertical.
The Harken cam cleat is the definitive cam cleat no other brand comes close to actually working as well as a Harken, I have always removed Schaefer cleats from Schaefer fiddles and replaced them with Harken. On my '82 I wanted clam for me and cam for my crew. The point of not using the horns is the same for not using the winchers, if you hold a tack and do not sail to a lay line then horns, self-tailers, and little blue donuts work fine, but if you trim your sails a lot then you use cleats to spell you between adjustments, and cams and clams are the only way to go.
You can spot a compulsive trimer by the cleats next to his unused self-tailers... LOL
I use clam cleats on the C-22, 2 sets - one facing aft for single handing and one facing forward for the crew. On the C-25, I use Harken cam cleats, replacing the ones that came with the boat when I bought it. In general, I prefer the clam cleats as they are easier to use, but as stated above, line diameter can be an issue.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> but if you trim your sails a lot then you use cleats to spell you between adjustments, and cams and clams are the only way to go.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I don't race, but I do like nice sail trim. I don't see why a clam cleat mounted to the side deck would be any different then the Wincher. The Wincher is basically a clam cleat that is mounted horizontally on top of the winch. You can "cleat" or "uncleat" just as quickly.
IMHO if you are a racer, then cam cleats are the only way to go. Self-tailers (or winchers) are a pain-in-the-xss and take way too long to release. My cams are mounted on the Ronstad bases that ensure the sheet enters at the correct angle. My crew swears that Ronstad cams are better then Harken, last longer (and are cheaper! ) We had clam cleats on the C22 but gave up on them the nth time the lazy sheet caught in one while tacking.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Derek Crawford</i> <br />IMHO if you are a racer, then cam cleats are the only way to go. Self-tailers (or winchers) are a pain-in-the-xss and take way too long to release. My cams are mounted on the Ronstad bases that ensure the sheet enters at the correct angle. My crew swears that Ronstad cams are better then Harken, last longer (and are cheaper! ) We had clam cleats on the C22 but gave up on them the nth time the lazy sheet caught in one while tacking. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I don't have any problems with self tailing, which we have on the C-27 I race, or cam cleats, which I have on my C-25.
We use the standard Horn cleat on the O'day. If you tie it correctly the load is on the wrap that goes around the base. Taking it off the cleat is not a problem. When I used to race on the O'day we had a clam cleat, however those were only used on transports or pleasure trips. When racing the headsail sheet was never cleated.
I positioned cam cleats so that I could pass the sheet under one horn of the horn cleat by the winch, and then into the cam, as you can see below. This eliminated the need for a riser, and reduces the pull somewhat at the cam. I bought cam cleats (don't remember which brand) that were rounded toward the top of each jaw, which I suspected might make them release more easily. I don't recall any serious jams.
The bitter end of the sheet also goes back through the base of the horn cleat, with a figure-8 knot.
It could be that your winches are worn ( the rough part that you wrap around and don't grip as well as when they were new) or maybe its the type of sheets you are using. I use Reggata single braid 3/8 and like Don said try putting another wrap or two before you cleat it. If I put 3-4 turns on the winch I can get by without tailing (self tailers)
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by pastmember</i> <br />The Harken cam cleat is the definitive cam cleat no other brand comes close to actually working as well as a Harken,
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> I'l second that for larger than 5/16 line. Ronstan's cams are good for the small stuff.
Frank, you're missing a satellite radio and a stereo remote control on that bulkhead.
Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ. The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.