Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.
A couple of months ago I asked why ethanol didn't seem to be affecting the performance of my Honda lawnmower. I may have spoken too soon as last night it suddenly (shortly after refueling with 3 month old gas) started acting like it was starved for fuel (it doesn't have a fuel filter listed in the parts list.) Today a Honda dealer told me that ethanol has been "eating" older Honda lawnmower carburetors - and they have replaced over 200 of them since ethanol became the only option. I haven't heard anyone here saying they needed to replace the carburetor on any older Honda outboards . . . and I'm doubting the differences in internal parts for Honda marine engines would be that dissimilar from Honda lawnmowers . . . Any experiences, thoughts?
The only issue with ETOH is the effect on some fuel lines, gaskets and seals on older engines. The materials may breakdown in the presence of ETOH and need to be replaced and it is possible to dredge up gunk from a dirty fuel tank. Old fuel might have phase separated, and that fluid can be hard on the internals too and definitely cause problems. Other than that, contrary to what many want to believe, 10% ETOH has no affect on engine reliability or performance. Everything else is urban legend
Passage came equipped with a Honda 8 4 stroke (thanks to Dave Bristle). The only issues I've had with 10% ethanol gas was it was eating my old gas lines, so I replaced them. I found some black gunk in the carb bowl which inspired me to replace the lines. Ever since then, my low idle jets get clogged about 1/2 way through the season, and one or two shots of carburetor cleaner takes care of that. Having now put that in the record, I hope that I won't have to "eat my words"! Let's just hope they don't up the ethanol level to 15% or more.
After dealing with repeat carb issues on my old Briggs-engined lawnmower, I was talking to the mechanic at my local small engine shop and he told me it was the ethanol fuel we have in California. It hardens or somehow deteriorates the rubber diaphragm that meters the air-fuel mixture. I now only put race gas in my 1982 lawn mower (has no ethanol), and I haven't had a lick of trouble since. Costs $5 a gallon, but totally worth it. Kind of funny though.
We inherited a 1997 Yamaha 4-stroke with our boat in the fall of 2009. When we took it to the dealer for a "going-over" the following spring I noticed they had a fraction of the new outboards in the showroom compared to the mid 1990s. He explained that new motor sales are a rarity nowadays because almost everyone keeps having their old stuff serviced. "Oh great" I thought . . . if his primary income is now service - this is going to be an expensive bill - which it was.
This spring when I had to replace the overengineered plastic oil drain plug that cracked in two - I called a couple of local Yamaha dealers (each 35+ miles from Pittsburgh) to "buy local." Each paused when I asked if they ship parts. The heck with them I thought and ordered from the web for less including shipping.
I am getting the same feelings regarding this Honda mower issue . . . already ordered a replacement air filter online . . .
I have (had) a Honda lawnmower and finally in disgust gave it away as it only ran well on perfect, new, no ethanol gas. The mower with a Briggs and Stratton that replaced it has run fine for years with ethanol gas. Ditto for my Honda outboard, very finicky requiring tons of stabilizer. On the other hand my Tohatsu, on Limerick, which is hardly used, runs like a champ on whatever I get. I believe that Honda, primarily being a motor vehicle company, over engineers their engines based on highway vs waterway!
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by bigelowp</i> <br />I believe that Honda, primarily being a motor vehicle company, over engineers their engines based on highway vs waterway!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Pre-ethanol (90s and earlier) Honda engines are known to have problems with E-10 due to seals, fuel lines, etc... Comparing them to post-ethanol engines from anyone else might be unfair. Ethanol is ethanol, whether in a car, a boat, or a lawnmower.
(I've been told Honda makes more internal combustion engines than everyone else in the world combined. Apparently they're an <i>engine</i> company that makes all sorts of other stuff with engines.)
Boats.com (they sell lawnmower parts also) has let me down. I ordered a part last Sunday which their website said was "in-stock." They said it wouldn't ship until Wednesday. Apparently they had to order it from Honda and wait for it to arrive before re-shipping .
During my high school years I worked summers in a Honda motorcycle shop. They dabbled in a couple of other Honda products - the rototiller and snowblower. Honda paid great attention to detail - like the nylon bushing at the end of cable covers - to keep the cable wire from rubbing against any sharp edges. "Wow" I thought - even as a teenager.
I was always surprised (disappointed) to hear of the problems some model years of the Honda outboard were experiencing.
Many years ago, I borrowed "The Honda Story" from the library. It is a good read and thoroughly recommend it to all. It tells how Mr. Honda w/expertise on engines teamed up with a marketing guy and became what they are today. Interesting also is how they tried to improve the auto glass furnished by PPG here in the USA by one of the first of it's kind contracts having another glass producer assist with the quality control efforts.
IIRC, Honda has historically been considered a low-class company by the Japanese because it is (was?) not part if a Keiretsu. Toyota, Mitsubishi, and Nissan were part of huge Keiretsus, and much more esteemed for that reason. Maybe that's changed by now. Success can silence a lot of critics.
Dating back to 1974, I've owned 5 cars, 2 lawn mowers, and now an outboard by Honda. I've loved them all - almost.
I got my first Honda lawn mower in 1985, and paid $900 for it - a ridiculous amount, but it was the best of the best, with aluminum deck, self-propulsion, and blade clutch (so the motor would continue running even when you stopped the blade). It was money well-spent - that mower lasted me until last year (25 years in all). This mower was clearly not designed for ethanol, but survived through the E10 changeover with no problem at all. It had to be retired because the crown gear on the propulsion mechanism stripped, and they told me it would cost too much to replace it. I don't think I can blame that on E10. I did not get to autopsy the motor, but there were absolutely no outward signs of a problem because of the gas.
My new Honda motor is not nearly as impressive. It cost less than the first mower (without even adjusting for inflation), but it's already been back to the shop twice for mechanical problems with the carburetor.
<i>Take Five</i> came with a 2000 Honda 15 HP mounted directly on the transom. It has the squared off cowling - prior to the rounded designs. I've not noticed any problems with E10, although I burn the gas out of the carburetor every time I use it to minimize potential corrosion. I also seal the gas tank between uses to avoid the nightly "breathing" that sucks humid air in when it cools. I like this motor because it is much lighter and more compact than the newer models. The compactness is important because it allows the motor to swivel when connected to my hard link, which helps a lot when docking in the tough river currents.
Were the 2000 vintage motors designed for E10 gas, or does it share the same seal problems with the 199x vintage motors?
Wow ! there's been a lot of thinking on this one. It's a thorny problem -- this E10. We've all heard the horror stories. Nonetheless, as I said before, I motor on and off the slip, which is about 5 minutes up/down the harbor. By contrast, this year I moved from the fiercesome Housatonic River, so I no longer have a 20-40 minute run to/from LI Sound.
I generally take <i>Passage</i> out on one or sometime two weekend days, and usually one evening during the week. I <b>don't</b> run the Honda 8HP engine dry each time.
But about mid-season (late July), I do a a little preventive maintenance.
I disconnect the gas line and give the carburetor a few shots of Carb Cleaner. I will run the engine at a low idle speed and pull off the gas line, then shoot a blast of cleaner into the gas port (it must go into the bowl) and also into the air intake. The engine runs very rich for a moment, and the engine nearly dies, so I stop shooting cleaner for a moment so the engine will resume, then I give it another shot. Again, the engine almost dies, but I stop the cleaner and the engine resumes. I will do this three or four more times. Last thing, I rev the engine at a high RPM and shoot it some more with carb cleaner.
Afterwards, I let the engine run dry and take the remaining tank of gas and put it into my car. I refill the tank with fresh gas, and this will generally take care of the gum and fuel deposits for my mid-season checkup. I change the engine oil and leave it at that. (I switch the oil filter along with the oil in the Fall.)
I've been lucky so far and thank my lucky stars that I don't have to fuss very much with fuel and the engine. I am really glad I'm no longer fighting a huge current for a half an hour any more. While I do rely on my engine, it's rarely a life or death struggle. Now all I have to do is motor for 5 minutes up the Harbor, make a "J-turn", swing into the floating dock, bouncing off my fenders and tie up to the dock.
Thank the gods -- engine's been good, the gas has been clean, the fuel-water separator has been working fine and the inline fuel filter has been doing its job. Don't want to put the kaibosh on it though.
Now I'm wondering - where can I get a replacement shear pin for the prop? One of these days, you never know. The Fates have a way of knowing what you're unprepared for. Anything else I should be preparing for? Hmmmmm.........
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Voyager</i> <br /> . . . Now I'm wondering - where can I get a replacement shear pin . . . <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> . . . and I'm wondering what is brewing in the C25 fuel tank while I've been farting around with E10 in the Honda .
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Voyager</i> <br />...I switch the oil filter along with the oil in the Fall...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Hmmm, my 2000 model has no oil filter. It's unusual for such small motors to have an oil filter. What year did they start doing that?
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Voyager</i> <br />Now I'm wondering - where can I get a replacement shear pin...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I vaguely recall one or more being clipped somewhere on the engine, inside the cowling... or maybe they're in the little tool kit that you should have gotten. The dealer in Bridgeport will have them, and WM has generics (by size).
Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ. The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.