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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

My aft mast lift

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rrick
Captain

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USA
261 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/13/2011 : 14:25:16

Was a lot of work, even after the initial 2x4 mast rest was provided at the time of sale. But the 3:1 lift makes for easy work on this tall rig mast. Question/thoughts: I think I'll roll the mast back and bolt to the step before lifting. Also, is it a good idea to still have a side to side stabilizer when I go for the full lift?

Molly Brown: 1967 Grand Banks 32-#34. Bronze, mahogany, teak, oak, with 120hp diesel to push all 10 tons. Currently an abuser of the bilge pump. Also... The Tall Rig Spirit: 1978, #973, Cast Fe Fin Keel on a Trailer

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2011 : 14:37:27

Cool tool! You might become the most popular guy in the marina among those with deck stepped masts.

Yes, it is extremely important to have lateral support all the way up. It appears that the mast may still be a little low for winching from the front of the boat when it reaches the top of the device. What's your plane for going from the top of your device to the point where a winch from the bow would be able to pull it up the rest of the way? Or, are you just planning on a few big guys muscling it up the rest of the way? I hope the latter isn't the case because at about the angle the top of the device creates with the mast plate, that's when the stick starts to get its heaviest.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2011 : 15:09:36

Looks pretty high to me. I use a 4:1 mainsheet tackle and and start with the mast at head level while standing on the cockpit seats. I control the mast with the uppers, It is really easy with 2 people, but I can do it alone pretty easily also.

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rrick
Captain

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USA
261 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2011 : 16:20:34

I've got enough blocks to do a 4:1 purchase to the stem. That is how I had someone pay out while lowering. As an experiment, I had the friend cleat the front while I let the aft end float in my carrier and there was quite a bit of stretch. I don't want to over stretch the new halyards I'm putting on. Should I pull on the forestay turnbuckle? Standard rigs can tell me all day long how easy mast stepping is, but my first attempt lifting, albeit I didn't remove 40 lbs of aluminum furling foils, I lost lateral control and ripped out 2 lag screws. Nothing scary, but I learned the tall rig is not just a 2' taller mast, and my furler can go on in an hour without climbing the mast (a foil even bent when I had a crane do the lift). I think it was more the foil than anything, as once that 45# forestay slipped to the side it pulled the mast with it. Alado furlers, label them and take 'em off (I've got 14 overlapping aluminum foil bits).

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Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2011 : 17:12:35

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Standard rigs can tell me all day long how easy mast stepping is, but my first attempt lifting, albeit I didn't remove 40 lbs of aluminum furling foils, I lost lateral control and ripped out 2 lag screws<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Something is wrong with your technique. This is me lowering my mast by myself. I don't have aluminum foils, but it can be done with the right equipment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r33VCObNroY

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rrick
Captain

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USA
261 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2011 : 17:44:55

I remember watching that video many times, half as many just because the CD is only available an not on iTunes. I have just as many people telling me the A-frame is the way to go as is for the mast-up design as well as a Catalina 25 manual stating just pull. I weighed the mast once I pulled all the shrouds off and with three 3/8" internal halyards its only 75#. Well, I have the pipe nipples and galvanized conduit so I'll just build an A-frame too and be set with both. Glad I noticed you connect the A-frame to the forestay, missed that watching months ago.
Yeah, those Alado foils are beefy to support twin internal halyards for dual foil slots; specs are 4kg/meter. Slide a 5' section x 2.5" section so they all overlap, building from the bow up. A couple clamps and your done, so easy. But I'll be getting at least one of the 4 genoas that came with the boat to hank once I get comfortable trailering.
I'm doing the pop-up gas struts right now and my lift is providing perfect clearance.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2011 : 19:15:06

I attach the jib halyard (5/16 Vectran-100, stronger than the forestay) and the forestay to a carabiner on the A-frame and then clip the mainsheet to it. Keeping the foil and drum centered does a lot for mast stability. I also attach a line with rolling hitches to the uppers so I can tension either one if the mast drifts. The mast becomes reasonably stable when it is about 2/3 up.

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2011 : 04:44:21

Very impressive device. Must be pretty heavy, too. If it is high enough, I would roll it back first and attach it to the mast step before lifting if you have enough height at the roller. You may find that you'll need afoot or so of lift to get the right angle to secure the mast step bolt.
Here's one I made:

Edited by - dmpilc on 09/14/2011 04:59:20

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2011 : 05:56:40

Hmmmmm, I lift my mast onto a CD extending mast crutch, then raise/lower with an a-frame and eletric winch. Seems a lot less hassel some how. Nice concept though.

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rrick
Captain

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USA
261 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2011 : 14:07:22

not too heavy, like 15-25lbs. Spreaders will have to come off at lowering while stepped. Nor can I supply plans more than its made from an original homemade mast crutch, bent steel plates bolted through the wides of the long 2x4s, some 5/16" line, a cleat, U-bolts and 400# wal-mart blocks, and a long bolt holding two more wal-mart blocks and a trailer bow roller (the priciest single component at $12.50). I didn't jump on the mast up because of the gudgeon mount and aside from the crane cost, they grab the spreader mounts and bounce them all around and ajar the mast step quite a bit while the spreaders are connected. I'm soaking in all this advice and hopefully passing some on about my unique headsail furler.

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2011 : 17:00:11

RRick,

I've raised my mast both forward and aft, both with and without an A-frame,on land and in the water, and with as few as 2 people and as many as 4. For me, an A-frame with myself and my wife (she handles the lines is easiest. If that isn't going to work, 3 buddies and raw power is usually just as fast.

We have never damaged our step, but I did remove it, re-epoxy the bolt holes, and give it beefier bolts once upon a time.We also have the mast plate which I believe helps distribute the load a little better than just the step.

Good luck with your invention. Remember which line is which when you are doing your lift and be careful of extra tangles.

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rrick
Captain

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USA
261 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2011 : 18:18:06

From every Catalina 25 owner I've talked to about this: Standard rig users step using nothing but force suggesting the same to tall rigs and tall rig users have no difficulty, but universally use aides. Anybody have a weight on the standard mast? My luggage scale recorded 75 lbs on my tall mast at the balance point without any stainless rigging. I'd love to get good at stepping. It was just that first traumatic experience and second using the crane so I wanna get it right. My step is re-epoxied lag screws over a deck organizer all sandwiched with polysulfide. Good mast stepping thread BTW, finding info I couldn't with searching (one of which is my mast weight). Why my deck organizer has three eyes forward and one back is unknown to me.

Edited by - rrick on 09/14/2011 18:22:59

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2011 : 19:53:36

The problem is that weight is the lesser component. The center of mass of the TR is farther from the fulcrum (step) and it takes significantly more lifting force if it is applied between the center of mass and the fulcrum. With an A-frame, the force is applied to the end of the mast which moves through a greater distance than the center of mass - less force over a greater distance does the same work. Mechanical physics works!

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2011 : 04:09:24

One other thought - rrick, if you are doing this on the water, how busy is the fairway and how protected is your slip? We try to avoid busy times at the marina, and aim for low wind days when we step/unstep. We have been caught before though and been waked/winded (??) but it makes things a little more dicey.

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rrick
Captain

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USA
261 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2011 : 09:47:00

Occasionally a few minutes worth of 8x20" rogue swells will inundate the entire bay and slide right through our marina's tire-breakwater causing every boat to thrash about, with with the most violence seen in those moored in the shallow water slips against the breakwall. That would ruin the day if it happened while mast stepping or a pair of pants if mast ascending. The Catalina 25 manual also forewarned me about launch ramps and "other sailors [from] getting impatient while they wait for yout [sic] to move out of the launch area [while stepping the mast]." The flat areas of my bay's launch ramp are criss-crossed with electrical lines that would come within a few feet of launching a stepped rig, requiring either a very careful launch, an against the gravity mast step, or as I've heard most do, an on-the-water step (on the launch ramp docks if your just visiting our lake-watch for angry sailors).

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Jan Briede
Navigator

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USA
162 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2011 : 09:19:41

I raised the mast on my boat this weekend. Anyone interested I have a short video clip on my facebook page. It took less then one and a half minute to get it up (after some preparation). Also, anyone interested I can email you a picture of the A-frame I built.

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