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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2011 : 18:43:52

Larry,

Ours both being '89's it sounds like our systems are the same. I guess my biggest question is, now that I have one battery do I need to hook up that extra wire from the negative terminal to the negative bus bar. Sounds like I do.

What does the negative battery cable connect to?

I also noticed there is no negative wire connected to one of the terminals of the master circuit breaker. That doesn't seem normal.

Sorry if I'm asking simple questions. I haven't really taken the time to explore the "dark side" of the DC system.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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3466 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2011 : 21:08:57

Gary,

In regards to the wire from the negative battery terminal, that should go to one of the terminals on the negative bus bar. If at one time there were two batteries onboard, well then you may have two heavy gage wires connected to your negative battery terminal (one being the jumper wire that would have connected to the other battery's negative terminal). Only one wire need be hooked up to the negative battery terminal and that one goes to the negative bus bar.
If the other heavy gage wire (a rather short length) is still hooked up to the negative battery terminal and the other end is just laying in the bottom of the boat, that then was the jumper wire to the other battery's neg terminal and it can be removed since you indicated you do not have a second battery. (One possible exception - If you have an electric start/charging outboard, oftentimes, the negative wire from the outboard is connected directly to the battery negative terminal and the way that is usually done is by the outboard negative wire being bolted to a short heavy gage wire off the battery negative terminal. So, if there is a second heavy gage wire connected to the negative battery terminal and the other end is laying in the bottom of the boat, it was either the jumper wire to a second battery the boat had at one time..or it is the wire that was used to connect to the outboard negative wire.)

Negative wires only go to a negative bus bar, though, some have accessory negative wires attached directly to the negative battery terminal. They would be lighter gage wires. Many of us have some of these extra wires hooked up directly to the battery but the proper way is for negative wires to be linked together at the negative bus bar.

All negative wires are generally just attached to each other thru the negative bus bar. They do not go thru battery switches or DC panels. All positive wires go thru the DC Panel and the fuses or circuit breakers of the DC Panel. Negative wires do not go thru circuit breakers.

The circuit is connected similar to this: Battery positive terminal to battery switch to DC panel to positive wires from all loads. The load(s) negative wires go the negative bus bar and the battery negative wire connects to the bus bar to complete the circuit. Switch on a load and the juice flows thru the positive lead connecting the complete circuit.

Here is schematic from the 1988 and post boats. See the battery begative wire going to the bus bar on the left of the diagram. See the positive wires going thru switches/panels.

Edited by - OLarryR on 10/22/2011 21:18:17

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2011 : 21:41:57

Gary--not to disagree with anything Larry said, but I seriously recommend Sailboat Electrics Simplified by Don Casey (or a similar book--there are others). You should understand the principles of DC circuits on a sailboat before you start connecting wires based on your interpretation of our "suggestions." If you're in doubt, get expert help. This is serious stuff--12 volts actually can cause a boat to catch fire--I was on one (not mine) that almost did. Fortunately, the cabin only filled with smoke before we caught it and before there were actual flames--this was five miles off-shore and 10 miles from an inlet on the Pacific.

This is not really different from doing your own home wiring, regardless of the voltage. If you ever want a demonstration of a 12V short, put a wire on one terminal on a Group 24 battery and then touch it to the other terminal. No, WAIT... DON'T DO IT! I never suggested that!

(...and the explosive arc could damage the battery.)

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 10/22/2011 21:44:03

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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3466 Posts

Response Posted - 10/23/2011 : 06:13:27

Agree with Dave - Good idea to get the book Dave suggested. However, you had specific questions and so I gave the specific answers and the schematic should be a big help - It supposed to be representative of what many of our post-'88 Cats electronic systems were supposed to resemble, though, may have had modifications thru the years. The schematic is a good reference and it comes right out of our Forum - Look to the left of the monitor screen and click on "Manuals and Brochures". While the basics are good to grasp reading thru helpful info contained in 12 Volt books, there is nothing like having a schematic of what your electrical system should have looked like at one time. The Manuals attached to this Forum also have addl schematics and so you may want to take a look at them as well.

The "12 Volt Bible" is also a good read for understanding the 12 volt system. There are other books that are also equally good. Some lean toward hooking up solar panels, etc while others cover more of the basics. I have the "12 Volt Bible" and the "The Marine Eletrical and Electronics Bible" ...and believe one addl boat electronics reference. You never can have enough. Actually, what I also find very helpful is reading the maintenance or electronics advice corner that is in some boat magazines. Oftentimes, they have a section that is devoted to answering boat maintenance questions and a number of authors of boat books contribute to fielding the questions that come in. I have seen numerous electronic questions asked in these magazine questions and answer forums and considering the aggregate benefit of reading those columns on a regular basis...definitely helpful to understanding issues that in many instances are common issues to all of us.

Edited by - OLarryR on 10/23/2011 06:16:41

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 10/23/2011 : 09:41:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OLarryR
 ...However, you had specific questions and so I gave the specific answers and the schematic should be a big help...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">And I agree. My suggestion was based on a suspicion that Gary might also benefit from a better understanding of some underlying principles of DC systems on boats. I'm heavily biased toward understanding things--not just following instructions--when messing with stuff that can...... you know.

And Catalina's schematic, while an accurate diagram of how they wired the C-25, does not show an inline fuse at the battery, as we've discussed here in the past (because they didn't put one there). [url="http://catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22486"]Here's one thread[/url] on the subject.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 10/23/2011 : 16:12:23

I have a basic understanding of AC and DC systems. Could I benefit from reading the publications several of you mentioned above, absolutely. I will get Don Casey's book.

The main reason for all of my quesions above is I'm only vaguely familiar with the AC and DC systems on my boat. That's one reason I haven't reconnected the battery charger yet. If I ever take time (and I will this winter) to familiarize myself with the systems (which I need to do) I will hopefully be able to help others with their electical systems like you guys are doing for me.

I'm very aware of what a DC system short can do from seeing the results of 4 boat fires in the past 3 months (3 of the 4 were electical system malfunctions, the 4th is rumoured to be, eh umm, "suspicious") along with other life experiences including my battery overheat that started this thread.

All of the above being said, I do like to learn as much as I can about different subjects and I want to learn more about this one (I definitely need to learn more). Where's the best place to get Casey's book? Can it be downloaded online?

Edited by - GaryB on 10/23/2011 16:20:07

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 10/23/2011 : 16:17:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 Gary--not to disagree with anything Larry said, but I seriously recommend Sailboat Electrics Simplified by Don Casey (or a similar book--there are others)...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
More specifically, Casey's [url="http://www.amazon.com/Caseys-Complete-Illustrated-Sailboat-Maintenance/dp/0071462848/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1319411795&sr=8-1-spell"]"Complete Illustrated Sailboat Maintenance Manual"[/url] is a compilation of 6 of his books, including the Electrics book.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2012 : 16:38:20

My other battery has died now and I'm beginning to wonder if my Xantrex battery charger is killing them.

I bought two new Group 27 Deep Cycle batteries from Academy yesterday. They are Exide and both were built in on January 9th and shipped to Academy this month.

What is the best way to put these into service? In the past I was taught to fill them with battery acid rather than water when topping off the first time. Not sure if that still applies.

The battery charger at home normally starts out at a 10 amp charge level and then drops to 2 amps. I can force it to start at 2 amps. Should I hit it at 10 amps or 2 amps the first time.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2012 : 18:20:26

Distilled water should be the only additive in a battery's life. Do a normal charge cycle if it needs it, but your Xantrex is likely to be a more sophisticated charger and should be hooked up.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5377 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2012 : 19:02:01

Lower cost battery chargers can overcharge your battery, and eventually destroy them. Xantrex 3-stage battery chargers are considered some of the best. I have a car charger that takes about 4-8 hours to recharge car batteries. I would not trust it for continuous charging. Go with a high quality charger since your batteries are too expensive to mess around with.

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2012 : 08:18:01

I had a scare with my battery charger wire getting hot, so it's all unplugged and disconnected for now.

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2012 : 08:24:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RhythmDoctor
 More specifically, Casey's [url="http://www.amazon.com/Caseys-Complete-Illustrated-Sailboat-Maintenance/dp/0071462848/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1319411795&sr=8-1-spell"]"Complete Illustrated Sailboat Maintenance Manual"[/url] is a compilation of 6 of his books, including the Electrics book.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

X2...GREAT book to have on a variety of subjects. I've used this book extensively over the last year....and I already have many years of travel trailer RV experience to draw from....the two are very similar.

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2012 : 08:40:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 I bought two new Group 27 Deep Cycle batteries from Academy yesterday. They are Exide and both were built in on January 9th and shipped to Academy this month.

What is the best way to put these into service? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

One of the first things I did last year was get rid of the existing batteries....a pair of mis-matched car batteries, one was dead.....and bought 2 matched marine deep cycles from Academy. I also replaced the dubious charger the PO had, bought a nice [url="http://www.amazon.com/Guest-2611A-Battery-Charger-24-Volt/dp/B000NHZV1S"]Guest[/url] unit that charges in stages and maintains. It was also on sale at Academy. System has been in play for a year now....zero issues and always have plenty of strong DC power, all weekend.

I just removed all the old stuff, installed the new stuff....and that was that. Checked the water in the batteries just a couple weeks ago....level is fine, none needed, even after that horrible, record setting summer we had last year.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2012 : 18:32:08

Bruce -- My Zantrex charger is a 3 stage. Hopefully it's just old batteries causing the problems and not a charger going bad.

Joe -- What model batteries did you buy from Academy?

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2012 : 17:25:01

Are most of you using Group 24's or is the Group 27's I bought the proper batteries for this boat? I'm an hour away and don't want to waste a trip if at all possible.

Thanks in advance!

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2012 : 18:42:27

group 24s on my 1984 with the dinette layout and batteries under the starboard settee. I don't think group 27s would fit.

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