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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Single-handed configuration

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JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2011 : 20:52:34

Or am I better off with [url="http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|118|3071|899943&id=899493"]winchers[/URL], and avoiding a) putting unnecessary holes in the boat and b) the need for two different sets of components? I've been reading the comments here about them - just about everyone who uses them seems to really like them, and they are certainly price-competitive with what I wanted to do. The advantage of the clam/cam or cam/cam combo that I described above, at least as I can see it, is that the winchers say they only support up to 3/8" line. I'm not planning on using anything heavier at this time, but it would seem that the flexibility offered by the cam/clam or clam/clam mibht be advantageous. Am I off base?

Edited by - on

JeanAndre
Navigator

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USA
224 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2011 : 12:30:55

Hello all,
I am a Single Handler and I really love to take a boat out by myself. From small daysailers to the 45´ 1966 Philip Rhodes Sloop I owned in Brazil.

We can go hours and days on discussions on what works best, but to me the truth is that if it works for you, who am I to say it does not work.
Of course there are Easier and sometimes safer ways to do things on a boat. Instead of going on and on about this, may I suggest a great book on the subject?

The best part of this book is that it is free and you can read it on your next solo outing. In a day or two you´ll read it all.

http://sfbaysss.org/tipsbook/

Fair winds to all Singlehanders and crews out there!

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2011 : 12:36:37

Thanks Jean!

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2011 : 14:53:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimGo
 Or am I better off with [url="http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|118|3071|899943&id=899493"]winchers[/URL], and avoiding a) putting unnecessary holes in the boat and b) the need for two different sets of components? I've been reading the comments here about them - just about everyone who uses them seems to really like them, and they are certainly price-competitive with what I wanted to do. The advantage of the clam/cam or cam/cam combo that I described above, at least as I can see it, is that the winchers say they only support up to 3/8" line. I'm not planning on using anything heavier at this time, but it would seem that the flexibility offered by the cam/clam or clam/clam mibht be advantageous. Am I off base?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

With those winchers the sheet can fall out kind of easily. Self tailing are much more secure. I have cam cleats that were added to a spot that serves as a base to my winches. I'll try to remember to take a pic next time I'm at the boat.

Actually, you can see them here, on the starboard side at my main job winch, they are elevated with wood.

Edited by - PCP777 on 11/01/2011 14:54:11

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2011 : 15:05:37

Peter, is there a line on your boat that DOESN'T have a winch? I think your PO would have put a winch on the outhaul if he could have.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2011 : 19:05:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimGo
 ...I think your PO would have put a winch on the outhaul if he could have.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">You missed the little bulge in the sail cover...

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2011 : 08:18:45

You know I have Winchers on my boat but have never used them. Mainly because I have never had to use two hands to crank the winch. One hand on the winch handle and the other tailing the line. I use cam cleats raised on wooden blocks to secure my sheets. Maybe I don't use the Winchers out of habit. Guess I'll give them a try next time out.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2011 : 08:47:32

Joe,

Want to sell the winchers?

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2011 : 10:18:31

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
With those winchers the sheet can fall out kind of easily. Self tailing are much more secure. I have cam cleats that were added to a spot that serves as a base to my winches. I'll try to remember to take a pic next time I'm at the boat.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Many people continue to assume that the jaws in the Winchers are for the line. They are not. The line builds up underneath the jaws and stay secure --- worked for me for 12 years on our C25. Never felt the need for cam cleats.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2011 : 10:35:00

Stu,
Shhhhhh...I'm trying to convince Joe to sell me his winchers at a good price, thus saving me the trouble of properly bedding screws for cleats! Don't go giving him advice on how to use them properly!

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2011 : 11:24:46

I have the all-black Schaeffer cam cleats on risers on our C-25 that were drop in replacements for the cleats installed by a P.O.; however I had to move one hole in one of them because the angle was wrong - P.O. installed incorrectly. We have 2 sets of clam cleats on our C-22, one set facing forward for the crew and one set facing aft for me when I'm single-handing the C-22. I much prefer the set-up on the C-22. Clam cleats are quick and efficient, but the line is more prone to coming out of the cleat.

Edited by - dmpilc on 11/02/2011 11:28:08

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2011 : 11:35:41

David,
Thanks for the feedback. If I can't get Joe to take the horrible Winchers off his winches and send them to me for free (kidding) I may go the route of a combination of cam cleats and clam cleats. Cams for a "crew" position, and clams for me. My thought is, if I'm single-handing, having the sheet pop free of the clam isn't really the end of the world - it certainly won't be a catestrophic problem. By contrast, having the cam available for the "crew" will be good because they are easy to work and, on those rare occasions when there is too much tension to simply "pop" the sheet free, we can always use a team approach and use the winch.

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2011 : 13:35:27

Jim,
I'll be glad to sell you my Winchers as long as you take the 5,000 lbs of mass they are attached to.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2011 : 13:49:16

Joe, we could always just trade winches. I imagine the shipping would be a little less expensive that way, and easier to coordinate.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2011 : 06:57:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stu Jackson C34
 Many people continue to assume that the jaws in the Winchers are for the line. They are not.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Those "many people" include the people who make Winchers--Barton Marine. You can ignore the groove on any self-tailing winch... but for more security, you can use it as a cleat. That is what it is for.

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2011 : 22:25:03

Jean - Merci beaucoup!

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JeanAndre
Navigator

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USA
224 Posts

Response Posted - 11/18/2011 : 13:39:54

On fait ce qu´on peut..... Glad to help.

I do like this forum a lot, and I am new to the C25 this is my first and I just had it for this season. The Forum helps me lot!

Fair winds Jerry

Edited by - on

drazlou
Deckhand

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USA
5 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2011 : 22:23:37

When I single hand I usually cross sheet the jib sheets so that I can winch on the windward side. I take one wrap around the lee winch and then cross the cockpit to the windward winch which has the handle on it. This keeps the boat flatter than moving to the lee side to crank the winch but makes it awkward to tack. Any suggestions?

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2011 : 06:42:04

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by drazlou
 When I single hand I usually cross sheet the jib sheets so that I can winch on the windward side. I take one wrap around the lee winch and then cross the cockpit to the windward winch which has the handle on it. This keeps the boat flatter than moving to the lee side to crank the winch but makes it awkward to tack. Any suggestions?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">With my C25, I didn't routinely cross-sheet the jibsheets. I only did it in strong winds, to get my weight to windward. In more moderate winds, I ordinarily steered from the low side, even though it might have helped a little to get my weight to windward. Everything we do on a sailboat balances one consideration against another. A significant drawback of cross-sheeting is that you can't see as well from the high side. When singlehanding, you don't have a crewmember that you can assign to watch for traffic behind the genoa, so you have to do it yourself. The only way you can do that effectively is to move to the low side periodically and peek behind the sail. I didn't feel that, in moderate winds, the benefits of cross-sheeting outweighed the need for visibility and vigilance, even when racing.

That being said, from your description, it sounds like you are treating the leeward primary winch as a turning block when you cross-sheet, putting only a single wrap around the leeward winch, and then putting the rest of the wraps needed to control the sheet around the windward winch. The problem with doing it that way is that, when you get ready to tack, and you unwrap the sheet from the windward winch, there won't be enough wraps on the leeward winch to resist the load on the sheet and to hold it until you are ready to release it during the tacking procedure. When cross-sheeting, I put 2-3 wraps on the leeward winch, and then only put 1-2 wraps on the windward winch. Then, when I was getting ready to tack, and had to unwrap the sheet from the windward winch, there were enough wraps on the leeward winch to hold the load until I got ready to commence the tack.

When singlehanding, it's a given that you can't do everything in the same, optimally efficient way that you would do it when sailing with crew. The trick is to do everything as efficiently as a singlehander can do it. That will make you competitive with other singlehanders, but you'll never be competitive with crewed boats. It's inherently harder to singlehand a boat than to sail with crew. For example, it's very difficult to set a whisker pole downwind, or fly a chute, singlehanded.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 11/26/2011 07:28:17

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2011 : 15:08:04

I don't put a full turn on the leeward winch. I just use it to turn and put all my wraps on the windward so it runs free when I release it.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2011 : 16:10:36

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave5041
 I don't put a full turn on the leeward winch. I just use it to turn and put all my wraps on the windward so it runs free when I release it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">That will work, but, for efficiency, I like to have as much done before starting the tack as I possibly can. If you release from the leeward winch and tail on the opposite winch, then you can pre-wrap the lazy sheet and insert the winch handle before the tack, instead of having to do it during the tack, when you are already overly busy releasing, tailing and steering singlehandedly. You have a limited amount of time during the tack to accomplish a lot of actions. Anything you can do in advance will give you more time during the tack to deal with any problems that might arise, such as a hockle or a snagged jib sheet.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2011 : 20:57:04

We all find what works best for ourselves, and I find that on this size boat that I only need a winch handle for the last couple of turns, if at all. I stand with the tiller between my legs and flip off one turn when I start the tack and the rest as I get close to the wind. I then lean to the windward side and throw two turns on the winch and sheet in by hand. Finally, I sit with the tiller in the crook of one knee, throw one more turn and trim at my leisure. It's certainly not as smooth as a crewed tack and probably wouldn't work a on a larger boat, but it gets the job done in a controlled manner for me and not embarrassing to be seen doing it.

I have rarely seen properly laid out line hockle when run free.

Edited by - Dave5041 on 11/26/2011 20:59:30

drazlou
Deckhand

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USA
5 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2011 : 21:10:56

Thanks all for the input. I sail in Barnegat Bay where the wind kicks up in the afternoon and I probably don't reef or roll up my 150 jenny soon enough. I'll try your suggestions and yes, it's hard to see around a 150 from the high side. I periodically turn into or away from the wind to get a peek but your caution is valid. Thanks again.

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