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JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/09/2011 : 18:21:23

When I left the marina on Friday, I was excited, but disappointed. Excited, because we had just moved our new-to-us boat about 2 miles from her previous home to her winter home, and we had done it without anyone else but us (no offense intended to Steve Milby, whose generous offer to help us move her is GREATLY appreciated!). Disappointed, because there were still so many questions about the boat and whether she was "too much" for me/us. I locked the companionway as we left, taking some comfort in the fact that we would have all of next season to sort things out - we have too much going on in the next few weekends to make it worth trying to keep her in the water, so she's being hauled on Monday, and I'd taken my first and last sail of the season on her as "my" boat.

Or so I thought. Yesterday, as we drove to Annapolis, I realized something important - I locked the companionway, and didn't give the marina a key. From what I read here, I learned to keep the keel up at the dock to keep the cable out of the water as much as possible, and that created a bit of a problem, I realized, because the marina would need to drop the keel once the boat was in her jack stands. So, I headed out today to give them the keys.

Of course, while I was there, I also took a harder look at what's there, and her overall shape. I'd noticed some water in the bottom of the cabin, and it was fresh water, so I decided to find the source of the leak. As was suggested here, I checked around the cabin for any tell-tale signs of leakage from any of the attachment points for the various deck components, but none of them had any streaks or other marks that suggested a leak. However, the under-side of the V-birth cushions were damp. From the reading I'd done here, I knew to inspect the anchor locker's drain. Sure enough, the locker was full to the brim and there was a lot of debris in there, too. I took the anchor and rhode out, then cleared the drain and cleaned out the locker as best I could. I opened the forward hatch and companionway nice and wide to try to encourage some of the water to evaporate.

Then I realized "hey, wait a minute, it's a pop-top!" I knew, from reading here, that there was a hook that is supposed to catch the pop-top. The guy who sold me the boat said he didn't have it. He was wrong. It was there, at the base of the mast, just under a cleat. The cleat held the down-haul and I wasn't quite ready to try to disassemble the mast, so I decided to forego freeing the clip for the time being. Then I remembered reading here about how people had simply tied off the top. So, I released the screws and lifted the top, only to realize that the vang the orginal owner had installed was going to prevent the top from being opened. I knew enough, from reading here, to look for a quick release of some sort, and found a clip where the vang attached to the boom. A moment later, the vang was hanging from the main halyard, and the pop-top was open and tied off.

I looked around for a hand-operated pump to get the water out of the bilge and did find one, but the hose was very short; too short to drain to the outside from the bottom of the cabin. So, I decided to give up on that problem for the time being. Then my father-in-law sent me a text message asking if I was sailing. I said no, I was fixing some of the "stuff" on the boat. And that's when it hit me - I should be SAILING! :)

So, I screwed up my courage and decided it was a good time for me to try single-handing the boat. I went around and tied loops in my dock lines so it would be easier for me to tie off the boat as I brought her in. Then I fired up the engine (started first pull, thanks to something my dad suggested - pull the choke all the way, and give it more gas than the manual suggested), took down the pop-top, and set out.

Pulling out of the dock was uneventful, which was great! Then, as I motored down the canal, I looked up and realized I hadn't taken the straps off the main, nor had I reconected the vang. From what I read here, I knew that the boat wasn't going to move THAT fast. So, I kept popping up, releasing a strap, then popping back to correct my course. But that still left the vang. I popped up one more time, and managed to free it. That's when I saw that the boat was heading for a sea wall. I jumped back into the cockpit, grabbed the engine, and promptly turned the throttle in the wrong direction, causing the engine to die. I ran forward, and managed to push the bow off the sea wall (with about 8-10 people looking on!). The boat turned slowly, and I ran back to the cockpit. I reset the throttle, yanked the starter, and it started up. I got the vang reconnected, and kept going. I got out to the bay without further problem. I was able to kill the engine, unfurl the jib, and hoist the main. I forgot to release the boom from the pigtail, but that was an easy fix.

Otherwise, my day was great! It struck me while I was out there that I was was sailing MY boat. And doing it on my own. And that was a REALLY cool feeling.

So, thank you. Thank you for all the fantastic information here. Thank you for putting together the self-appraisal guide, which helped me look over the boat and feel comfortable with buying it. Thank you for answering all my stupid questions without making me feel stupid for asking them. And thank you for helping me better undersand the boat.

Most importantly, thank you to my wife, for helping this to happen!

- Jim
Formerly of 1984 C25 named Dragon Wing

NOTE: In my case, PLEASE don't confuse stars/number of posts with actual knowledge. On any topic.

Edited by - JimGo on 10/09/2011 18:46:05

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2011 : 18:39:31

Way to go Jim! Glad you took that first plunge. I was pretty nervous the first time I took my boat out after buying it. I learned alot on that first day as I'm sure you did. After a few more times you will get a routine down and it will be more relaxing.

I've learned to try to always have everything ready to hoist sails before leaving the dock. I've also learned that if I forget something to wait until I'm well clear of everything I could hit before attempting to "fix" what I forgot to do at the dock. It's just easier at the dock.

I also learned on the first day that my boat will continue moving for a long distance after putting the motor in neutral (much farther than my powerboat) and with my particualr motor (8hp Suzuki) I have almost no reverse.

Edited by - GaryB on 10/09/2011 18:39:55

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2011 : 18:47:32

Absolutely wonderful narrative. There really is no feeling like it - your boat and you playing on the natural force of the wind to anywhere or nowhere. But one aside: keeping the keel up may prolong the life of the cable, but adds the risk of catastrophic damage if something like the cable eye or keel connecter that is submerged should break and let the keel free fall. Most of us keep the keel down, counter to the manual's recommendation, to avoid that risk. Several threads on "keel drop" relate the damage and repairs caused by that event. I have zincs on my keel, inspect it at least annually, and keep it down. If you don't have adequate depth under you, keep the keel most of the way down

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2011 : 18:50:31

Thanks for the feedback, Dave! I'll try to remember that (if you knew my memory, you'd understand) for next season.

I should also note that the list of all the stuff I learned here was nowhere near complete. For example, I took down the main today, and folded it "properly" (as far as I know) and put it into its bag. I'll be giving it a good cleaning before next season. Now I just have to figure out how to get the roller furler off the boat and get the jib down.

That should be interesting; thank goodness I have the manual for the furler!

Edited by - JimGo on 10/09/2011 20:17:46

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2011 : 18:26:52

Congratulations, Jim. It is a great feeling indeed. Sounds like you will do just fine. The jib should come off without removing the furler. Follow the manual. If it talks about messenger lines, pay careful attention.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2011 : 19:42:21

That's a day you'll always remember--congratulations!

Several of us have experienced not releasing the boom from the pigtail--in some cases in conditions that made it more of a problem. If you have a topping lift (line from the boom end to the mast-head), the pigtail is (arguably) not necessary, although some folks here still like to use it. I ordered my new backstay without a pigtail.

The topping lift, if you don't have one, can be an early project next year. It keeps the boom up when you're hoisting and dropping the main, and stays just slightly slack under sail. There are threads here about making it adjustable--some winter reading.

Again, congratulations!

Edited by - on

cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2011 : 21:27:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimGo
 

Otherwise, my day was great! It struck me while I was out there that I was was sailing MY boat. And doing it on my own. And that was a REALLY cool feeling.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

OUTSTANDING narrative! Thank you for sharing it!!! DaveB, this should be shared in the mainsheet!!!!

Cheers!

Chuck

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2011 : 21:33:20

Thanks Dave! I was pleasantly surprised to see that I have a topping lift! I have some other hardware on the boom. I need to take a photo of it, get feedback. I think it night have been for an outhaul, which would be nice!

As to Sunday, you are right, its something I will remember for a long time! And I was sincere when I said thank you to everyone who makes the forum a great place for novices like me. You, Steve, Frank, several Daves, and many others have really helped me a lot over the last several weeks, and I am very grateful.

Edited by - on

michaelj
Navigator

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132 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2011 : 03:16:53

Boy, Jim, did your story bring back some memories! I have done most or all of the things you did at least once. I have had my boat for four years now and have found that as time goes by a lot of the stuff you need to do to get underway become sort of instinctive. However I did make checklists both for going out and standing down. I also console myself by telling myself that various screw ups actually just create "adventures." Good to have you aboard--this forum cannot be beat.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2011 : 05:05:23

Take pictures and learn to post .. we can help you with observations. Secure the poptop with the poptop mast lock ( http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/manbro/pictures/pc19.gif ) #6
and only use the tie off as an additional safety line, or as some suggest.. only sail with the pop top down.

I've had the poptop mast lock screw come loose and drop without my knowledge, so I always clip a line around the mast as a backup.

Slow down, relax, take the engine out of gear when you go forward to adjust something.

Welcome to the adventure!

Edited by - redeye on 10/12/2011 05:05:51

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2011 : 07:10:47

Jim,

What a great morning read. If you plan on doing a bunch of single handing, you might consider a tiller tamer or you can also jury rig one with bungee cords which will help keep your boat pointed relatively in a direction that you want for short stints to pull gaskets off the main etc. Also remember one of the great things about roller furling is you can get that sail out quick if you run into engine trouble etc. That has saved me more than a few times with my finicky merc. I never use a pig stay anymore, I rely on the topping lift. I agree with Gary, have everything ready in terms of sails before you leave, in most weather conditions you can remove all but one gasket to keep the main from spilling off the boom too bad. One other lesson I learned the hard way early on, never take your sails down before your motor is running and warmed up.

You didn't mention any problems with leaving the dock or returning and that my friend, IMHO, is the hardest part of sailing..I always have a set of lines I leave cleated on the dock with loops for the cleats on the boat. I have a different set of transient lines for docking other places.

Welcome to the forum and enjoy your new C-25!

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2011 : 08:01:01

Peter,
Docking is the one thing that has always scared me. I even told the instructors that when I took my lessons at the local lake last summer. The instructors, who also worked the boat rental, said "oh, don't worry, when we see you coming in, we'll be out there to help you". My wife and I went out once after taking the lessons, and the guys came out and helped us tie off. But my wife said that before she'd let me take my boys out, I needed to single-hand the boat, which I thought was a fair request. So I did, sailed it for an hour or so, then headed back to the dock, only to find that the guys were all swamped. The other rental boats were tied up at the dock, too, so the only place for me to go was at the very end of the dock, at the end of the line of boats. One good "whack" and I'd at least have damaged my boat and the rental in front, and possibly more. I managed to slip the boat in perfectly, tie her off, and drop the sails without any problems or help. As I walked to the rental office, the guys said "hey! We didn't even see you come in!". That same thing happened a second time, too. So, my docking confidence has gotten higher, at least at the lake.

Getting the boat out of the dock when we bought her was easy. She was tied alongside the dock, and I just had to nose out into the channel and motor away. Getting into the new dock at the marina, though, scared me like you wouldn't believe. I inched my way down the channel at the marina, turned down the appropriate lane, and cut the engine. We drifted toward the slip, and I grabbed a boat pole and pulled us in. My wife and dad both helped keep her centered while I tied everything off, so that was uneventful.

The day I went out alone, I did exactly what you mentioned - I left all five lines behind. The lines I purchased had the loops already woven into one end, but the way the slip was laid out, I needed those loops just to hook the line over/around the pilings. Before I left for my single-handing, I tied two more loops in each line. The first loop was at the end, and my intention with that one was to make it easy to grab the line with a boat hook. The other loop was tied at about the same spot where I'd had the boat cleated off. This loop just slips under the center part of the horn cleat, then around the ends of the cleat, making it very easy to tie off.

When I came in on Sunday, I wound up overshooting the slip a touch (the starboard side piling was just to the port side of the bow, with my momentum going toward the 31' boat that was on my starboard side). I was going slow enough, though, that I was able to get the engine in reverse, back off a bit, and adjust everything. The loops worked out perfectly, although in hindsight I should have put the two stern loops on first (I only did one), then gone forward to handle the bow and spring lines.

From my perspective, no damage occured, nothing was ever in imminent danger, and I wasn't off by so much that I was rear-ending the boat next to mine or anything, so I chalked that up to "experience", and the kind of thing that will happen from time to time.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2011 : 08:37:07

For me the big thing about docking is to realize sail boats pivot on their keels so a sharp turn from the far side of the fairway is the best way in. It lines the boat up with the slip and you can focus on controlling your speed rather than worrying about hitting the sides. People who approach on the near side of the fairway and try a slow turn have a lot of trouble getting into their slips.

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2011 : 09:08:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 For me the big thing about docking is to realize sail boats pivot on their keels so a sharp turn from the far side of the fairway is the best way in. It lines the boat up with the slip and you can focus on controlling your speed rather than worrying about hitting the sides. People who approach on the near side of the fairway and try a slow turn have a lot of trouble getting into their slips.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Very true, I always swing wide. As a wise sailor once said in this forum, and these words resound in my head every time I'm coming in....

"Never approach a dock faster than you're willing to hit it."

Not sure how your slip is configured but one morning I set up some lines and a bumper to act as a stopper which is really nice, especially when you're single handing. That way if you come in a bit hot it will slow or stop you before you hit the dock. I see a lot of boats in our marina with variations of this. Of course, I have a floating dock, head in between two fingers. Here's my rudimentary drawing, maybe you can rig something up like this, takes a lot of stress out of coming in to have a safety net of some sort...

Edited by - PCP777 on 10/12/2011 09:09:03

Kim Luckner
1st Mate

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USA
99 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2011 : 09:17:48

Thoughts, Tips, Techniques and Tactics for Singlehanded Sailing
Andrew Evans on Foolish Muse
This book is only available as a free download from
The Singlehanded Sailing Society at
www.sfbaysss.org/tipsbook

A good read, overflowing with good information and reinforcement when you've actually discovered something right by yourself.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2011 : 09:34:30

Thanks Kim!!!

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2011 : 09:44:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Kim Luckner
 Thoughts, Tips, Techniques and Tactics for Singlehanded Sailing
Andrew Evans on Foolish Muse
This book is only available as a free download from
The Singlehanded Sailing Society at
www.sfbaysss.org/tipsbook

A good read, overflowing with good information and reinforcement when you've actually discovered something right by yourself.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I've perused that book before, and like you said, lots of good info. I especially like his quote, "I do know that if singlehanded sailing was not possible, I wouldn’t sail at all; I’d take up some other hobby – perhaps jigsaw puzzles."

I feel exactly the same way.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2011 : 10:41:52

Peter, not sure how I missed your post about the dock configuration - that's a neat idea! Thanks!

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2011 : 11:48:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimGo
 Peter, not sure how I missed your post about the dock configuration - that's a neat idea! Thanks!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yeah the bow goes nose in and the big "crash" bumper is tied up about two inches above the water with four dock lines. When I come in, the hull kind of rides up it, then slides back. As many know on this forum, I've had all sorts of problems with my engine so if it quits when coming in or for when I sail in, having something like this is very helpful, especially when single handing. Best of all? I found everything I needed in the "dumpster" from the PO.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2011 : 13:19:24

My #1 tool coming into the slip was (is) one aft springline to (1) help stop the boat and (2) pull it over to the dock so I could step off and hook up the other lines. On the C-25, I dropped that spring on a cleat on the genoa track. (Depending on your slip, the cleat on coaming by the winch might do.) Then if the wind or current was trying to mess me up, I'd leave the engine idling in gear, pushing the boat against the spring-line while I took care of the others.

Frank's right--the C-25 tracks beautifully into a slip, even with a cross-wind. I certainly can't say the same thing at all about my current boat! (If you think docking is the hardest part of sailing, try it with a big planing-hull, single-screw powerboat!)

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 10/12/2011 13:21:32

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2011 : 20:57:13

Dave,
I have the spring line on the starboard side of the boat, away from the dock finger. The finger isn't that long, and with where the cleats are located, it seemed like I'd just be creating another obstruction to climbing aboard.

Next season, if we stay there, I think I'll look at backing her in. That will give my boys the ability to climb aboard into the cockpit. Right now, they can't really do that, and if we were going to be in the slip any longer, I probably would consider putting them in through the hatch.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2011 : 21:45:48

If your finger dock isn't long enough to give access to the cockpit, backing in makes sense. I did it for many years in a club where we had no finger docks, and about 10' between the boats on both sides of us. It's somewhat more important to anticipate what the wind or current will try to do as you enter, but you can get the hang of that. It'll probably allow you to drop a spring-line on your winch cleat on your way in to help stop and stabilize the boat.

Just remember--hitting the dock is no longer an option that way...

However, your outboard has more thrust in forward than in reverse, so stopping is quicker an easier when you're backing up. (Controlling the rudder is a little trickier--backing in is a two-tiller operation.)

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 10/12/2011 21:48:23

michaelj
Navigator

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132 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2011 : 03:23:31

As far as hitting the dock goes, one time when I crashed into the dock with the bow an old Vietnam helicopter pilot who witnessed this said "Any landing you can walk away from is a good one."

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3448 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2011 : 03:46:28

I am sure there are many ways that work regarding docking. I always back into my floating finger slip. About the only time I come in bow first is to facilitate hull maintenance (ie. cleaning, Poliglow applications). I like backing into the slip because I can get off a bit sooner than if bow first. I can ensure my boat does not hit the main dock and that has never been an issue. The thing is that unless there is a strong wind and rarely that is the case at my finger slip, I am so use to docking that I oftentimes shut the outboard before I am fully into the slip. I then coast in 1-3 feet more, get off and walk the boat in the remaining foot or two. The only time I find that I need a line to assist in docking is if the wind is blowing the boat away from the finger slip. In most cases, I still have no issues but to be on the safe side, I prepare in advance utilizing the excess of the furling line coiled and laying near the winch that will be dockside, so that when I do get off, if the boat starts to move away from the slip, the line is there to give me the extra leverage to pull the boat in. About 10 slips down from me, someone ended up in the drink because they could not hold their boat to the finger slip and yet were not willing to let go of the boat...so in they went and had to swim to the boat !

I think that with more dockings under your belt, you will get use to what works best for you.

Edited by - on

cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2011 : 05:30:29

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by michaelj
 As far as hitting the dock goes, one time when I crashed into the dock with the bow an old Vietnam helicopter pilot who witnessed this said "Any landing you can walk away from is a good one."
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
And a corollary to that truthful statement goes something like: "And any landing that lets you fly the airplane again is a great one!"

Chuck

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