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New Catalina 25 Owner...(an introduction)

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/25/2002 : 13:12:46

By some circumstances that are beyond any rational explaination, I now have a Catalina 25 swing keel sitting on a trailer in my yard.

She's an early model, (ca 1978, Sail Number 158) and her previous home was the Sacramento River Delta in California. As a result, the boat is primarily suffering from the effects of sitting un-loved outside in the sun. (the teak is tinder dry, though not badly bleached, and the hull is definetly 'chalky')...

Other than that, the structure seems sound, no major cracks, creaks, dings or dents, and I believe she's seen very little time in salt water as the keel is still quite nice. Since the sails are also like new, I suspect she was often used "Delta Style" (i.e. a floating RV).

The real insanity of the situation is that I now have two 'holes in the water' as I also have a Venture 23... currently moored on Humboldt Bay. She's a lovely little boat, but at age 50, the cabin has simply become too low and cramped for my aging bones... hence the upsizing to the Catalina. (As soon as the Cat is ready for the water, the Venture will get spruced up for sale... hopefully to a loving home.)

So, While I guess I'm no stranger to fixing up old sailboats, Catalinas are completely new territory to me.

I'll likely be mostly lurking around and possibly asking some silly questions of you more experienced folk, so please bear with me.

I guess one of the first tasks is to join the National Association...
and replace those aluminum spreader sockets... halyards, sheets... wiring, battery, motor mount... oh my.. what have I done? (sighs)

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 12/25/2002 : 13:26:01

Congratulations on the new boat! Welcome to this forum - if you have a Catalina question and no one on this site has an answer, there probably isn't one!! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Derek Crawford C25 TRFK #2262
P.S. Happy Christmas!

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/25/2002 : 13:39:43

Welcome "Clam"! When can we start using your name?

Each of us started out somewhere like your situation, and learned huge amounts from the others here. Just mentioning the spreader brackets indicates that you know more about the C-25 than you're letting on. However, the swing keel cable, ball, and winch are your key issues. Then there're the "to-hull" drains...

Are you familiar with Catalina Direct? (catalinadirect.com) They have a C-25 Owner's Handbook that is full of ideas (and parts for sale)--worth the $10 or so they charge. Next is the Tech Tips section of the association site, and then of course this great board.

Is that Venture 23 the cutter rig? Cute little boat. But the C-25 is going to feel like a real yacht compared to the Venture! <img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

Ben - FL
Admiral

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880 Posts

Response Posted - 12/25/2002 : 17:46:01

Welcome to the Catalina 25/250 forum!

I'm sure you'll be happy fix'n your boat up the way you want it. I previously owned a C-22 and traded up to the C-250. Although I loved that boat for 5 years I can relate to being too cramped. Our other boat is for fishing, but still a hole in the water. Santa left us a trolling motor!

Was checking out Humboldt Bay on [url="http://www.boatchart.com/mapping/chart/chartindex.cfm"]MarinePlanner.com[/url]. Looks like a great place to be sailing.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year

Safe voyages,
Ben, FL s/v Chick-a-pea C250wk

Edited by - ben - fl on 12/25/2002 17:53:08

Edited by - on

John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 12/25/2002 : 20:19:14

Welcome to the neighborhood. Our boats were practically side by side on the production line. Mine is hull #153. The hull lay up on the early models is very thick and sturdy. be sure to re do the "to hulls" to "through hulls" Catalina Direct has the kits and makes it very easy to re fit.
Keep us posted as to your progress, My find was also a marina queen with very little actual wear. When purchased had been stored indoors for a number of years.

Merry Christmas
John V. Nin Bimash II
77 C25 sk/sr #153

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/26/2002 : 19:19:50

Welcome aboard Mr. Beach or can I call you, Clam?

I had a similar situation last winter when I purchased my C25 while my Venture 25 was still in the slip(It was kind of nice to be a fleet owner for a short time <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>!) The C25 is definitely more yachtlike than the Venture.

Again, welcome aboard!

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
C25 SR/FK
On the hard, 200ft from Lake Erie

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 12/26/2002 : 20:02:20

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
By some circumstances that are beyond any rational explaination, I now have a Catalina 25 swing keel sitting on a trailer in my yard.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Yeah, but I bet it would make for good reading for those on the hard with several inches of snow on the ground . . .

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 12/26/2002 : 21:58:02

Clam,

Welcome to the family! Many of us have been fleet captains when we bought our C25's. Mine included a Daysailer and a Laser which I sold several years later reducing my fleet to just osmepneo, my c25.

I'd be interested in the ". . . some circumstances . . .." that resulted in you having a Catalina 25. The story would be interesting reading for a cold winter's night.

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

Edited by - on

Champipple
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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 12/27/2002 : 08:34:35

Welcome.

You'll find this board to be one of a kind when it comes to specific boat organizations. If you want to do it, someone here has probably made your mistakes already and can warn you in advance. If we haven't done it, someone here is probably in the process of doing it.

Fire away with any and all questions, check the archives and don't be shy about posting.

Glad to have you on board
DW

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - Duane Wolff on 12/27/2002 08:48:36

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 12/27/2002 : 09:26:49

Thanks for your welcome.. this seems like a very nice community.

One of the first questions I was going to ask was about Catalina Direct... and it sounds like it's been answered yes, that is the place to go for parts and such.

Good thought on the thru-hulls. Not a place to scrimp or take chances... ditto keel hardware.

The standing rigging looks to be in good shape... no corrosion, meat hooks or other damage... but I have no idea when it was last renewed. I suppose for the safety factor, I'd better put that on my list too.

My short list... is getting longer already

Spreader bases
Thru-hulls
Keel Hardware
Standing rigging
Halyards and sheets (sun damaged)

Humboldt Bay is a challenging venue for sailing... the biggest drawback is the tides. Through the narrows of the bay you can get a 2 to 4 kt current.... so you basically plan your sailing "around the tide".

Lots of days I've ended up sailing very hard, yet "backwards" and needed to rely on the 'iron genny' to get me back home.

If any of you folks ever come up here... be aware that the entrance can get very dangerous when there's an outgoing tide and a decent swell coming in... it is a good place to stay away from under those conditions... oh, and mind the location of the mudflats too!

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 12/27/2002 : 11:16:49

Clam,

i can relate to planning sailing around the currents.

Before moving to the Great Sacandaga Lake I sailied on the Hudson river, about 20 miles north of NYC. The river is tidal up to Albany ca. 140 miles and of course the river has a current. Many times you'd sail backwards because the current was stronger than the forward movement of the boat.

I'd basically plan to to be up current when I wanted to come home so that I'd have a favorable current to push me home and I wouldn't need o/b until was near the the club.

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

Edited by - on

cathluk
Admiral

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USA
513 Posts

Response Posted - 12/27/2002 : 15:32:06

Welcome to the family Clam. This board had a great bunch of very knowledgable people. You'll learn a lot here & I'm sure you'll end up teaching all of us a lot as well.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>

Oh, and do recount the circumstances by which you got this boat when you have time - I'm sure it'll be interesting reading.

Cathy
"Blown Away"
'97 C250WK #253

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2002 : 02:16:10

Spreader bases
Thru-hulls
Keel Hardware
Standing rigging
Halyards and sheets

"My short list... is getting longer already" - Clambeach

Clam(we need to find you a better name <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>), here's a few small suggestions to keep in mind when doing those projects you are planning.

Firstly, if you are replacing the spreader brackets, you might as well change the masthead sheaves and run the halyards internally. To do this you will need to install an electrical conduit and replace the mast wiring to include the deck electrical fitting. It will make no sense if you don't, at this time, replace the VHF antenna and install new running and anchor lights.

When replacing the to-hulls(before you sink) and performing critical keel maintenance(replacing pivot assembly, turning ball, cable, zincs, and winch, then repairing the wide open split in the keel trunk) you might as well scrape and sand the hull, then epoxy barrier coat the bottom followed by multiple coats of antifouling paint. The rudder will also need these coatings, but only after the rudder split has been repaired or the rudder(and pintles)replaced. Oh yeah, your original rudder gudgeons are about to fail, so they'll need replacing too(this means taking a chainsaw to your transom to gain access to the backing plates). When you replace those gudgeons, you will probably notice that your original motor mount is woefully inadequate for your four stroke outboard, and that it has been mounted on the wrong side(port). You will need to trash the original mount, and install a new heavy duty mount to starboard(this means moving the ladder to port). After these repairs are made, the dull, chalking hull will either need extensive rubbing, polishing, and waxing, or an Awlgrip job.

If your are replacing both the standing and running rigging, while you are at it you might want to install a new topping lift, in-boom 8:1 outhaul, jiffy reefing, lazy jacks, 4:1 mainsheet, cunningham, downhaul, dowsing line, and lead all lines aft, which in that case you will also need cabintop winches, clutches, and line organizers. Since you have rigged the main for single handing, you might as well install both roller furling and an autopilot.

Your badly weathered and neglected exterior teak will need to be removed(grunt), refinished(Cetol), and rebedded(polysulfide caulk). You might as well rebed the leaking windows and lifeline stanchions. Since you refinished the teak, you will need to replace the old dried-out tiller that is about to snap like a twig, with a shiny new mahogany tiller.

If your boat has the original fixed marine head system, it will need to be yanked and replaced with a high capacity, low tech port-a-potty, but if your boat came with an over-taxed under performing port-a-potty, then this will need to be tossed for a new marine head with a 20 gallon holding tank and deck pumpout fitting.

After you light the alcohol stove and the curtains go up in flames, you will need to either convert to propane or install a new stove(and new curtains). While you are in the bilge replacing the mildewed water hoses running from the septic...er, I mean...fresh water tank to the sink, you might as well run new wiring for the new electrical panel, new battery switch, new shore power receptacle, new dual batteries, and new charger setup(with new solar panels).

These are just a few items to keep in mind when making your pre-launch to do list. Should be a piece of cake. Have Fun!

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
C25 SR/FK
On the hard, 200ft from Lake Erie

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2984 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2002 : 09:13:20

Gosh Don, your satiricle list (if that was your intent) points to the simple conclusion (has to be simple as there is no other) that messing with boats is fun. Well er... there is one other, but thanks to Forrest Gump...its ok.

<img src="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/images/helming.jpg" border=0>
Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
R&R N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2002 : 09:48:54

Don - your boat fixit list includes 75% of what I did to "Quiet Time" when I bought her. I moved the outboard motor from port to starboard, installed a CDI FF4 furler, replaced all plumbing hoses, new spreader sockets, reupholstered all 12 cushions, rewired the entire electrical system, installed a stern pulpit, stanchions, and lifelines (the boat had never had lifelines installed), and re-finished all the wood inside and out with Cetol. Oh yes, I bought a new full-batten main and modified the existing headsails to work with the furler... It was a hell of a job, took me nearly 9 months worth of weekends to do it all, and in fact I didn't get to put the boat in the water and sail her until nearly a full year after I brought her home! And now, I am considering either selling her, and buying a newer C-25 ('88-'90 WK/SR), or doing the Swing-Wing conversion. She needs a new rudder, too, and all the running rigging is probably original and should be replaced. This is a dilemma. Should I put several thousand more $$ into this boat, or go for my "dream", the '88-'90 WK/SR?, knowing how expensive they are and how difficult it is to even find one for sale on the west coast? Oh, another item: "Quiet Time"'s trailer is about on it's last legs, there's another $4000 I would have to spend...would it be better to spend all this money on a newer boat?

Larry Charlot
Catalina 25 #1205 "Quiet Time"
Sacramento, CA
<lgcharlot@hotmail.com>

Edited by - on

ronrryan
Admiral

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USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2002 : 10:33:03

Dear Clam--Keeping in mind that Rational has naught to do with sailboats (they come from the heart, not head) I suggest making the LIST (mine includes all the above, if I live long enough) and then insert SAIL after each line on the list--do not go on to the next project until you sail on the last project. I have failed in this task but offer the advice in good faith. God Bless, and welcome to a grand group, ron srsk @2343 Orion 1981 SW FL

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2002 : 12:55:07

Yes, Arlyn, I was being facetious(Is there ever a short to-do list for a boat<img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>).

Boat "ownership" is like sailing, it's more about the journey, than the destination. Let the fun begin!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
C25 SR/FK
On the hard, 200ft from Lake Erie

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2002 : 13:35:27

Larry,

Most boats, if not all, need something done to them at any given point in time, we just have to prioritize these items, and start with the ones that affect crew and boat safety. Everything else is placed on the, "Whenever I get around to it" list. This latter list, for me anyway, is somewhat large and includes the usual shine this, buff that, fix that thing, lose this, replace that,...etc. Every spring I try to take care of as many things from this list that time and budget will allow, but I never let items from it deter me from splashing and sailing at the earliest possible time. If I get to them before splashing, great! If I don't, aaahh...who cares...I'll just add them to next year's list.

As for your question about if you should continue putting money into your current boat or just sell and buy a newer one,...I can't answer that, only you can because that depends on your needs and preferences. Just remember one thing, sailboats and sailing are not investments with a monetary dividend, but instead are investments which yield mental dividends.

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
C25 SR/FK
On the hard, 200ft from Lake Erie

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2002 : 14:18:06

Heh heh.. Yes, that's quite a "to-do" list. That covers much of the same maintenance I performed on the Venture 23 over the last 6 years... and I know full well that when you finally get down to the end of the list, it's time to start all over again.

So, yes, let the "games" begin. West Marine and I will be on a first name basis!

Seriously speaking... I figure my "short list" will get me in the water for this season. The rest will have to come as time and money allow.

I guess I must admit that I must enjoy fixing old stuff up because I keep doing it. I've read that the definition of "insanity" is repeating the same mistake over and over, each time somehow expecting a different outcome.. if so, I'm certifably ready for the asylum now.

OTOH... Rationally, I know it would have been nice, and probably made more sen$e, to go ahead and spring $12-18K for a nice late model wing keel with all the goodies. but... geeze...these old habits die hard ! (refers to insanity definition above)

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2002 : 16:47:08

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I've read that the definition of "insanity" is repeating the same mistake over and over, each time somehow expecting a different outcome.. if so, I'm certifably ready for the asylum now.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

That's what a pre-frontal lobotomy is for . . . maybe that should go on the short list.

Edited by - OJ on 12/28/2002 16:47:59

Edited by - on

Ben - FL
Admiral

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880 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2002 : 19:27:12

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

I've read that the definition of "insanity" is repeating the same mistake over and over, each time somehow expecting a different outcome.. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

You wouldn't happen to be a friend of Bill's would you?

(I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!)

Safe voyages,
Ben, FL s/v Chick-a-pea C250wk

Edited by - ben - fl on 12/29/2002 15:35:19

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2002 : 19:28:37

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

Walt
1st Mate

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USA
37 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2003 : 16:54:21

I was wondering why some of you guys are moving the outboard to Starboard from Port. What if anything will that gain you?

Thanks in advance.

Walt Dudley
C25 1980 2153 TR/SK

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2003 : 17:36:16

"I was wondering why some of you guys are moving the outboard to Starboard from Port. What if anything will that gain you? - Walt

Walt,

On earlier C25 models, the motor mount was on the port side. This meant that the heavy outboard, large cockpit storage dumpster, galley, fuel tank, dinette table, head, and holding tank were all on the same side, port. This created a situation where the boat listed to port by a few degrees if all of this weight wasn't counterbalanced with ballast on the starboard side. In later models, the factory moved the outboard to starboard to better balance the load. Some owners probably moved their engines to the starboard side to correct this list.

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
C25 SR/FK
On the hard, 200ft from Lake Erie

Edited by - on

goodone
1st Mate

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USA
48 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2003 : 22:16:38

If you guys want to hear a REAL SAD multiple boat story....check this
out.Before I purchased my C25, I had a Kells 23 and a Clipper Marine 26 (both at the same time).Wait....gets even better.When I bought my C25 last fall,still owned BOTH previously mentioned boats. Sold the Kells this spring, but not the Clipper.Recently purchased a Morgan 382
so I am once AGAIN a 3 boat owner.Asked my insurance agent if I could get a "fleet" discount.All I got was that "deer in the headlights" look from him......

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2003 : 23:00:14

"If you guys want to hear a REAL SAD multiple boat story...I am once AGAIN a 3 boat owner." - Gene aka "Goodone"

That would bring me to tears...tears of JOY! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
C25 SR/FK
On the hard, 200ft from Lake Erie

Edited by - dlucier on 01/01/2003 23:09:25

Edited by - on

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