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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Question about Rudder repair

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/26/2002 : 07:56:53

Hello All,

Has anyone repaired their rudder? I just bought a C25 recently and the rudder shows signs of delamination. I worked the purchase price of a new rudder into the purchase price of the boat, but if I can repair the old rudder, I'd rather save the money, and it seems like it would be a good winter project while I wait for the Spring thaw.

Thanks!

Ben
Adventurous
#5553
C25 SR/SK

Edited by - on

n/a
deleted

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163 Posts

Response Posted - 12/26/2002 : 09:06:49

If you have the old-style rudder, you will be much happier with the newer, balanced rudder. The balanced rudder has a portion extending forward of the pivot line, and tiller pressure in high winds and heeling angles is practically non-existant. With the older rudder if you were out when it's blowing stink and you had quite a bit of heel on the boat you had to really beef the tiller to keep from rounding up. Good luck with the "New" boat!

Edited by - on

eric.werkowitz
Captain

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USA
283 Posts

Response Posted - 12/26/2002 : 10:12:41

Ben,

After my old rudder failed rather dramatically following a "repair," I built a replacement using the new rudder dimensions. After three years, it's still going strong. It's not a small job, but it only cost about $100 as I recall. It was a good winter project.

The new style rudder is a vast improvement as Charles notes. If you are interested, there are some threads covering the basics and I would be happy to describe how I went about it. Unfortunately, I didn't photo document the process.

Eric Werkowitz
C25 #4969

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5937 Posts

Response Posted - 12/26/2002 : 11:13:41

Ben,

My rudder split along the leading edge, above the waterline. The rudder has a plywood core. If the fiberglass and gel coat skin cracks, and if the plywood gets wet, it delaminates.

I suggest you drill along the crack about every inch-and-a-half with a 1/4” drill bit, as deeply as the drill bit will reach, or, until you reach undamaged wood. Then dry the rudder out thoroughly by putting it next to your furnace over the winter. Then set it on edge, so that the drilled holes are facing upwards. Then pour either “Git Rot” or epoxy resin into it, repeatedly, until it won’t take any more. (“Git Rot” is specifically designed to use for repairing deteriorated wood. The manufacturer claims that it is drawn into the wood fibers by osmosis. As far as I can tell, epoxy resin works in the same way.) You will probably have to reapply it five or six times, because it runs down inside the rudder and fills the open spaces between the delaminated layers of plywood. When it won’t take any more resin, cover and smooth the crack with white “Marine Tex.”

To prevent the rudder from splitting again along the edge, I got two strips of aluminum, about 24” long, 2 ½” wide and ¼” thick, and mounted the strips on either side of the rudder, parallel to the split, drilled holes through the aluminum strips and rudder, and through-bolted them all with stainless steel bolts.

Finally, I used a small phenolic core roller to cover the underwater surfaces of the rudder with two or three coats of V-C Tar, to prevent any further intrusion of moisture, and then finished it off with a couple coats of regular bottom paint. (Most plastic core rollers will work as well as a phenolic core roller. Marine paints and other repair substances usually cause a cardboard core roller to fall apart.) After about four years, this seems to have stopped any further deterioration of my rudder.

Although I hear nothing but praise for the new, balanced rudder, it is quite expensive, and, you don’t need the balanced rudder in order to have a light-pressured tiller. If your mast is tuned properly, if you carry the correct amount of sail for the wind conditions, and if you trim your sails correctly, the old style rudder will require only light pressure to keep the boat on course. Until my boat becomes overpowered, I can let the tiller go for a couple of seconds, and steer it with two fingers and a light touch. The tiller pressure only becomes significant when the boat is significantly overpowered. When the tiller pressure becomes that strong, it tells me that I need to reduce the power of my sails by trimming and re-shaping them, or by reducing sail area. In a sense, that tiller pressure is the boat’s “voice,” telling me that I am doing something wrong. I don’t want to stifle that voice.

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 12/26/2002 : 20:29:51

Ben,
I'm guessing that the delam is occuring (as Steve Milby noted) above the waterline. There are a few here who've had their rudders snap in two as a result of allowing the delam to go uncorrected for too long (of course if you purchase your boat second hand - as most of us have - it's hard to know just how long the delam had been going on.)
Me, I ran my rudder head length wise on my table saw with the blade cranked up about an inch. Then I did some exploring around the pintles with a dremel tool and discovered voids - from air pockets I assume. I filled all the spaces with an epoxy/filler mix, then re gel coated. Looks like new and no signs of any delam in five years.
Good luck.

Edited by - OJ on 12/26/2002 21:36:34

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/26/2002 : 23:41:58

<b>"...the rudder shows signs of delamination." - Ben</b>

What are the signs of delamination? Is the fiberglass skin splitting(tiny crack or gaping) or can you actually detect voids in the rudder casing?

My rudder had a slight crack almost around the entire rudder which I opened up with a Dremel, then filled with epoxy and gelcoat. I also put VCTar on it when I did the bottom last spring. So far the rudder has not started to split again.

A replacement rudder runs a little over $400.00 when I checked last spring.

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
C25 SR/FK
On the hard, 200ft from Lake Erie

Edited by - on

Ben - FL
Admiral

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880 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2002 : 07:59:37

I repaired my C-250 rudder with some epoxy I found at Home Depot. It came in a two part syringe with a mixing nozzle on the end. So all I had to do was drill some small holes and inject the epoxy to stop it from delaminating from the foam core. Then there was just the matter of fixing the split on the forward edge in the glass.

Safe voyages,
Ben, FL s/v Chick-a-pea C250wk

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2002 : 07:17:32

Thanks everyone.

Don, to answer your question, the evidence of delaminiation is the fiberglass skin is splitting along the seam pretty much all around the rudder, although it is more severe above the water line. Is this still fixable? If so, what are the steps I would need to take to repair it?

Thanks again,

Ben
Adventurous
#5553
C25 SR/SK

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Mark Loyacano
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2002 : 09:31:01

Mine does that occasionally. I open up the seam with a dremel tool (small wheel) and let it dry during the Winter. Then I fill the gap (seam) using a thickened mixture of resin and filler, sand fair and paint. The areas that were repaired rarely open up again. This year, only about a three inch, very slight and shallow split occured in a new area. It is a hairline crack... very easy to fix.
Mark L.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2002 : 13:56:44

<b>"...the evidence of delaminiation is the fiberglass skin is splitting along the seam pretty much all around the rudder..." - Ben</b>

This "splitting along the seam all the way around the rudder" was exactly what I repaired last winter and I don't think it is anything to be worried about since it is somewhat of an easy fix. I used a dremel to open the crack, then filled it with epoxy and gelcoat, and finally apllied VCTar to prevent further underwater intrusion.

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
C25 SR/FK
On the hard, 200ft from Lake Erie

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2002 : 14:33:49

Thanks for the info, Mark and Don, and everyone else.

I'll be repairing my keel shortly then.
<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Ben
Adventurous
#5553
C25 SR/SK

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