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23' Pilothouse-Really! No Joke

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piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/22/2011 : 17:42:23

Yep, got this in one of my emails. You have to check this out:[url="http://www.sailmagazine.com/best-boats/best-boats-2012-winner-com-pac-cp-23-pilothouse"]ComPac[/url]. Very interesting idea. But no reviews on how it sails. However knowing the company, I guess it cant be too bad, right? Don't think I will put on my Xmas list. They describe it as, “Bright and livable, and as adorable as a Teddy bear”. Well two of three not bad.

Steve A

Previous Owner
PiSeas II
2003 C250 WK #692
Newport Beach, CA

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 11/22/2011 : 18:40:18

I wonder how that would work in a Catalina 25 wing keel platform!!

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
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Response Posted - 11/22/2011 : 18:50:42

Steve, did I hear that this will be your winter project?

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5902 Posts

Response Posted - 11/22/2011 : 19:19:33

Steering from inside would be ok, but there would be almost no visibility when steering in the cockpit. You'd either have to stand all the time or look around the pilothouse. The windage would be awful at or above 25 kts. The hand operated windshield wiper would get tiresome fast. It might appeal to people who can't decide whether they want a sailboat or a powerboat, like the Mac 26X, but, like the Mac, probably wouldn't do either very well.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 11/22/2011 : 20:51:06

It's probably the right boat for somebody. I just hope that it looks better in person. ComPac does have a pretty good track record, but that doesn't mean they can't occasionally reach a little to far. I would love to have the disposable income for any of several of their larger boats.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 11/22/2011 : 21:07:28

The sailing characteristics might not be too different from the Com-Pac 23 (which is fair), since the hull is the same and the rig is similar (probably with a higher boom). The hand-operated wiper might not be too bad for occasional wiping of spray off the windscreen. It might not be much more tiresome than my switching my wipers on and off (individually) after I hit a big wave.

I've seen a wooden pilot house on a C-30...

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 11/22/2011 21:18:34

ruachwrights
Captain

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USA
258 Posts

Response Posted - 11/22/2011 : 21:25:18

I liked it- at least on a conceptual level. I think the quality would be far beyond a 26x both in terms of fit and finish and in terms of sailing manners. The keel seems pretty substantial, and the rig not bad which means that it should sail just fine in normal conditions. Sure the high profile would be a problem in high winds but shouldn't have your sails out in a 23' boat past 25 kts anyway. The layout is very innovative. I sense that it would easily fit 28' of typical living space in a 23' boat. (lack of designated galley is a shame though).

To me it depends on the price tag. If well priced it could be a comfortable if eccentric cruising choice in a new boat for those sods of the middling classes. Sure the super rich would laugh from the vantage their new sleek, Sabre yachts, but hey there you'd be enjoying the sea in your very own, new, well built spacious pocket cruiser...named toot.

Vern

Edited by - on

ruachwrights
Captain

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USA
258 Posts

Response Posted - 11/22/2011 : 21:41:53

Well, I guess you can discard my previous post. Base price of the CP 23 Pilothouse is listed at 69,995. For a boat named toot? Really!!! Ouch.

Vern

Edited by - on

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

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Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 11/23/2011 : 01:43:29

I've seen such motor-sailers before like this Delphia 22:

More here:
http://www.gtmarine.ie/delphia/d22/delphia_22_gallery.html

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 11/23/2011 : 07:15:38

I think I am gonna be sick. Anyone wanna invest in a company that makes S&S designs, Alberg's, Cal 40's, Bob Perry designs, and of course the venerable C&C 39? Is it just me, or is this yet another example of style over substance?

Sten

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 11/23/2011 : 07:48:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
 ...Is it just me, or is this yet another example of style over substance?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">It's just you, Sten.

These aren't for making ocean passages... aren't for living aboard... aren't for seasoned seamen... aren't for racers (imagine the visibility in the starting scrum)... It's the Scion xB or the Nissan Cube of sailing. There's somebody out there...

Edited by - on

John Russell
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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 11/23/2011 : 08:36:52

I like the lines of the Delphia much more. It actually looks as if it was designed to be what it is. And, it makes sense in the Irish Sea where its home is. The ComPac looks as if they took a perfectly good boat and put a box on top. Oh, yeah, that's what they did.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 11/23/2011 : 09:54:14

Some of you may remember the guy that posted a photo of his Cat 25 that wrecked when an inexperienced marina guy was working the travel lift and his boat slipped on the stands. The photo showed the foredeck with what looke dlike "Jaws" with about 1 foot of the decking ripped up because the forward stay held when it hit the travel arm. The marine declared it a total loss and...well what what does that have to do with this posting ? I recognized the photo from the Washington Sailing Marina which is on the other side of the river near me. I got to know the guy when he located the boat he then bought at my marina about 6 floating slips away from me. He is now gone but he had bought one of those mini-pilot boats (got out of sailing). I once went for a ride with him on his "C-Dory" (not to be confused with the sail-pilot house boat above). The drawback with one of these small pilothouse boats is that with the larger outboard, they make quite a bit of noise and that was one thing he complained about. Perhaps, if it has an inboard, it does not have this concern.

Edited by - OLarryR on 11/23/2011 10:00:07

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 11/23/2011 : 10:33:01

I'm with you, Sten. There might be a market for a small pilothouse sailboat like that, but when I think of all the bigger, nicer, better sailing, prettier, better equipped sailboats on the market for less money, I have a hard time understanding why there would be a market for them. As one example, I know of a very nice Alerion 28 for sale with an asking price about the same as the price of this little pilothouse. I know the Alerion is a little spartan inside, but it's a beautiful and a great sailing boat, and there are so many other, bigger boats with much more comfortable accommodations which are much better values.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 11/23/2011 : 10:35:28

Wow, not to take this too off topic, but did you see the OTHER boats from GT Marine? I think I'm in love with the 40.3. Of course, I should probably learn to sail my C25 first (and hit some approximation of the lottery).
http://www.gtmarine.ie/delphia/d40/other/GT_Marine_Ireland_Delphia_40_Brochure.pdf

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 11/23/2011 : 14:18:01

Another nice example for $39,900.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatMergedDetails.jsp?boat_id=2348862& ybw=& units=Feet¤cy=USD& access=Public& listing_id=2428& url=

Edited by - Steve Milby on 11/23/2011 14:18:40

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 11/23/2011 : 14:58:04

...and you can probably find a well-used Maserati for the price of a new Toyota... if that's what you want. If somebody wants to be able to trailer to lakes, patrol around even if the weekend turns out to be cold and rainy, sleep on the boat, and not deal with big-boat systems, they just might dig one of these little teddy-bears.

Two famous sayings: "There are all kinds of people," and "There's no accounting for taste."

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 11/23/2011 : 15:44:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 ...and you can probably find a well-used Maserati for the price of a new Toyota... if that's what you want. If somebody wants to be able to trailer to lakes, patrol around even if the weekend turns out to be cold and rainy, sleep on the boat, and not deal with big-boat systems, they just might dig one of these little teddy-bears.

Two famous sayings: "There are all kinds of people," and "There's no accounting for taste."
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> I'm not one to criticise a guy who buys a Mac 26X, although it wouldn't be my choice, because I think any boat that lures you safely onto the water is a good boat. But, while I was still living in the midwest, I had no idea what good values were available in used boats. For those who are dreaming about the bigger boat, our members should know that very nice boats are within reach for many of our members, and you don't have to pay $69,000 for a 23 footer.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 11/23/2011 : 20:14:27

No argument, Steve... But our "members" are beyond that point, and on course toward their own dreams. I would never expect one of "ours" to migrate in this direction. Hutchins is playing to a different audience, and that audience might not be into sleuthing out best buys in the used, big-boat market. I wasn't when I bought our brand new Daysailer and enjoyed her for 21 years. Would you have cautioned me against that, because you aren't into 17' boats?

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 11/23/2011 : 21:13:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 No argument, Steve... But our "members" are beyond that point, and on course toward their own dreams. I would never expect one of "ours" to migrate in this direction. Hutchins is playing to a different audience, and that audience might not be into sleuthing out best buys in the used, big-boat market. I wasn't when I bought our brand new Daysailer and enjoyed her for 21 years. Would you have cautioned me against that, because you aren't into 17' boats?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> You might know what all our members are thinking, Dave, but I don't. I think some are happy with the boats that they have now, some are thinking about moving up, some are thinking about downsizing, and some are thinking about going to the dark side. One of the things our members come here for is to share opinions and learn from each other. In responding to this thread, I mentioned a few considerations that I thought might be relevant for anyone who might be thinking about any pilothouse boat. I also mentioned a couple of very nice boats that are for sale, in case any of our members might be thinking about moving up. I could have kept that information to myself, but thought someone might want to know about a couple of nice boats that are available.

To answer your question, if I thought you or anyone else was about to spend a lot of your hard earned money for a boat without having thought about an important factor, I would certainly have brought that factor to your attention. You could then do whatever you wish with that information, including ignoring it, or, in the alternative, thanking me for helping you avoid a costly mistake. I don't care how anyone spends his money, or what his taste is in boats. I offer my opinions at no cost for anyone who might find them useful.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 11/23/2011 21:41:03

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2011 : 09:12:04

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 ...I have a hard time understanding why there would be a market for them.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Just sayin'...

Happy Turkey Day! (BTW, I don't understand why there's a market for pecan pie.

)

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5902 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2011 : 11:26:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 ...I have a hard time understanding why there would be a market for them.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Just sayin'...

Happy Turkey Day! (BTW, I don't understand why there's a market for pecan pie.

)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Just sayin' what, Dave? Should I not have wondered out loud why there's a market for a $69,000, 23 foot, ugly sailboat?

It seems like a reasonable question to me. I suspect there were others on the forum who were wondering the same thing, but hadn't said so. I can only guess that the builders pondered the same question before they decided to begin designing and producing the boat, so it probably also seemed to be a reasonable question for the builder. They must have had reasons that made sense to them, but it's difficult to imagine what their reasons might have been. Maybe, unlike Catalina, they would be satisfied if they only received a handful of orders for the boat. I can't think of any model of Catalina that has had a production run of less than 40-50 boats, with the possible exception of one or two of their biggest boats. Some of our members might disagree with me on one or more point. Some might think the price is reasonable for a 23' boat, or they might think it's aesthetically pleasing. If I was thinking about spending my $69,000 on one, I'd be interested in knowing how other sailors perceive them. In the end, I'd make my own choice, based on the reasons that were most important to me, but I'd certainly want to know what others think. Our members do that all the time. They come here and ask such questions as "What is the best bottom paint?" Then we each state our personal preferences and explain our reasons, and the original poster decides which paint to choose from all the options, based on the reasoning that made the most sense to him. That's the very essence of the forum.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2011 : 12:33:31

It looks to me like they cut away part of the coachroof of their $50K+ diesel 23/IV and pieced together the pilot-house and interior (no new molds), rigged a custom steering system, etc. All yours for another $20K+. That might be Gerry Hutchins' way of saying, "We're still fooling around, but if you really want one..."

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2011 : 13:01:29

"...pecan pie."

For us south of the Mason-Dixon line, pecan pie is one of the great delights to the tastebuds!

BTW, for you guys up north, it is pronounced "p'caan", not "pee-can"!

Edited by - dmpilc on 11/24/2011 13:04:34

Arlington
Navigator

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USA
196 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2011 : 22:05:00

I looked at some of the ComPac's, the smaller ones have some nifty mast raising ideas. The bigger ones have some cool interior features. One huge difference, in even the cheaper big ones is about 30,000 boat units.

It is nice to dream, but on the other hand I still have boxes, sacks and buckets of stuff I have bought and not got to install yet. I need to finish upgrading the boats (and trucks) I already have, before I move up. Oh yes, and if I can learn to be a better sailor in the mean time, that would help.

The Admiral says if I've got more boats, trucks and cars, than I've got fingers and toes, I can't get anymore toys.

On the topic of pies, there is pecan pie, then all of the others are just are imitation pies, quiches, or cakes trying to be as tasty and delicious as a pecan pie. Happy Thanksgiving!

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2011 : 22:27:18

I like that Delphia more than the ComPac. I can see the appeal of a trailerable boat with better headroom and accommodations. I like the idea of more room without putting up the poptop and setting up the tent enclosure. Being able to get out of the weather has some appeal too. Sort of like melding some small trawler amenities with a sailboat. Not everybody wants a bigger boat - and all it entails - even if they come cheap. It will be interesting to see if this concept is successful in the market. They'll need to improve the styling.

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