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Update on Don't Laugh

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New Wave
Deckhand

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USA
12 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/13/2011 : 01:00:24

Hi All! Finally got over feeling like two pounds of cow manure in a one pound bag with that virus that has had a hold on me for the last week. I'm not 100% well, but at least I was feeling good enough to head out to the marina today and try to see what kind of furling system I have and to try to reattach everything that I ignorantly took apart before.

First thing I noticed was that I do have the type of furling system that uses the forestay! Argh! So I realized I HAD to reattach the forestay. I brought a friend and the two of us pulled and pulled, but I still could not get the toggle link (think that is what it is called) down far enough on the forestay attachment (not sure if I got part names right) to get the pin through. It was about a 1/2" shy of lining up. An angel named Brad who was working on his C27 a few boats down gave aid. He loosened the aft stay just enough to give a little wiggle room and I was able to get the pin through successfully!

As a side note, the furler was not a CDI. The name is worn off, so not really sure what it is. It may be a Cruising Design Micro Reefer Spool.

I will probably post again as I may need help in how to remove the jib sail without knocking my boat off the cradle!

Thanks one and all for all the great help and advice. The support is truly appreciated!

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3477 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2011 : 04:15:14

Great !

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2011 : 08:57:25

Cruising Designs, Inc. is also known as CDI.

Edited by - on

New Wave
Deckhand

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USA
12 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2011 : 08:58:52

Aha! I never made the connection!! Doh!

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2011 : 09:26:18

Glad to hear that you got the forestay reattached! Were any of the guys helping you able to advise you on removing the sail? On a day with little or no wind, and the wind is not coming from behind the boat, unfurl the sail. This is done by pulling on the jib sheet while maintaining a slight tension on the small line attached to the drum that runs back to the cockpit. When you pull on the sheet, the line on the drum will be retracted onto the drum. The slight tension will help keep the furling line from jamming on the drum the next time it is pulled out.
Once the sail is unfurled, cleat the jib very loosely and let the sail flap in whatever breeze you have.
You indicated that there is only one halyard on the mast and 2 lines cleated on the furling drum. One will go to the tack or bottom front corner of the sail. The other will be the jib halyard. You need to have a length of small line, say 1/4", about 40-50 ft. long to use as a messenger line. Uncleat the halyard and tie the messenger line to it. You should now be ready to lower the sail by pulling on the bottom of the sail while holding on to the halyard loosely. If necessary, uncleat the line from the drum to the bottom of the sail. The front edge of the sail will be in a groove in the plastic or aluminum foil surrounding the forestay. It should slide out the bottom of the groove. Once the sail starts to come down, try to get hold of the sheet, grab the bottom back corner of the sail and try to keep the sail on the deck of the boat as it comes down. A second person would be very helpful here.
When you have the sail down, disconnect the head or top of the sail from the slide that travels up and down the foil. Secure it and the halyard to the drum and uncleat the tack or bottom of the sail if not already done. You are ready to fold the sail.

Good luck!

Edited by - dmpilc on 12/13/2011 09:32:52

New Wave
Deckhand

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USA
12 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2011 : 09:30:57

Problem #2 now! As Lee Panza and others have said, it will be okay to unfurl the jib while in its cradle because there should not be much lateral force on the sail if the sheets are not cleated. I just want to double check to make sure that is in fact the case. I am getting ready to unfurl the jib so that I can remove it. It's a relative low wind day, so hopefully I can remove the jib very quickly and it will not have to flap too long.

I just want to make sure that this is an okay thing to do and I am not going to blow my boat over in the cradle as long as the sail can flap and not have any tension on it. Needless to say, I'm scared!

Thanks again for everyone's help.

Edited by - on

New Wave
Deckhand

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USA
12 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2011 : 09:32:27

Thanks dmpilc.... we were writing at the same time :)

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2011 : 09:44:32

Don't forget to attach a messenger line to the line that hoisted the sail. It will end up at the top of the furler and you'll need to climb the mast or take the mast down to retrieve it in the spring. There are stories about a lot of Rube Goldberg inventions to retrieve a line form the top of the mast but, IMO, they involve more time and effort than just climbing the mast or taking it down.

Edited by - on

panhead1948
Captain

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345 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2011 : 10:52:32

Glad to hear you are feeling better. I have two nephews and a niece in the Chicago area. I go past your location several times a year. If I am going downtown I stop at dunepark and take the train in. Glad we all could be helpful. Merry Christmas

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2011 : 11:17:41

John,
I think yours is good advice, except for the "more time and effort" comment. When the boat is an hour (or more) away, time on site is precious. In those cases, the Rube Goldberg inventions are invaluable as they can be made off-site, and are safer for a novice than climbing or dropping a mast. Not that dropping the mast is all that difficult, mind you, but if my halyard got stuck at the top of my mast again (last time wasn't my fault, it was the PO!), and even with having built an A-frame, I'd probably still go with my "claw" to retrieve it. Of course, all this presumes I wasn't smart enough to attach a messenger line (which was your original advice, and something I a) agree whole heartedly with, and b) keep reminding myself when I'm away from the boat that I should do "next time I'm out there").

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2011 : 16:03:11

If your concerned about pulling out the sail is that it will fill and pull the boat over as your pulling, don't pull it out from the cockpit--take both sheets down to the ground and pull straight down-wind so the sail is luffing the whole time. Then you can go back on deck and pull it down from the furler.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 12/13/2011 16:03:49

New Wave
Deckhand

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USA
12 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2011 : 21:32:18

Well, the jib has now been folded and tucked away for spring, but the jib halyard is now dangling at the top of the mast!!!! Argh!! And this time it was not my fault. I'll take the blame for detaching the forestay, but not this one :) I brought my "adopted son" to help me take the jib off the furler and while I was in the bathroom he thought he would surprise me and take the sail off for me! And he succeeded! The problem is that he didn't know the story about the halyard and messenger line, so it looks like I will be stepping down the mast next spring! Owning a sailboat sure is fun... actually I could see where it could get to be fun when I finally figure it all out. Thanks again to all!

Edited by - on

glivs
Admiral

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USA
836 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2011 : 08:06:13

New Wave....you got thrown into the deep end of the pool and came out great. You've shown honesty, patience and courage in your endeavor. Not a bad way to start out in this new adventure. You should be proud. Happy holidays to you and yours!

Edited by - on

panhead1948
Captain

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345 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2011 : 10:13:27

Now that the mast is secure and the sail down there are some other things to look at. Was the water system drained? Was the head winterized? You should consider covering the cockpit and companionway. You will less surprises next spring

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2011 : 13:32:46

New Wave,
Not bad at all for the first time out of the gate! We have all made similar mistakes, as evidenced by posts on this forum. It's all part of the learning process we go through as new boat owners, and sometimes not-so-new boat owners.
I would add:
1. Make sure the windows and forward hatch are also covered with a tarp for the winter. They are a frequent source for leaks. An 8x10 silver/brown tarp over the cabin top will cover the companionway as well, and a 6x8 tarp forward works well too.
2. At the bow, there should be a small drain hole for the anchor locker. Make sure it is not clogged up so it can drain out rain water that gets in the anchor locker. I use a phillips head screwdriver for this.
3. Remove the battery(s) and put in your garage, if possible. Put a cover over the outboard motor and remove gas tank( to garage also), if possible.
4. To lessen the chance of mildew, remove any sails in the cockpit locker, also called the dungeon because it is big and deep, and place them inside the boat or take home. Loosen up seat cushions and turn under-seat storage locker covers 90 degrees so those spaces can get better air circulation. I take the cabin seat cushions and turn them up on an edge and lean them against the seat back cushions. Helps with dust accumulation, too. Open the door under the V-berth for the same reason. Check for water accumulation under v-berth, in the bilge, and in the cockpit locker, and sponge out if necessary. Leave bilge boards open so that space can dry out.
5. Remove anything perishable or that could freeze and rupture and attract critters and bugs.
6. This is also a good time to take lines home and wash them to remove dirt and mildew, if they need it.

Edited by - dmpilc on 12/14/2011 13:39:27

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2011 : 13:51:38

One way you might be able to snag the jib halyard:
Take 30 ft. of 1/2" pvc pipe (3 10' pieces connected together) and start wrapping duct tape around the pipe at one end. Take one wrap and twist the tape around so the sticky side is up. Overlapping the tape on itself, cover about 6" of pole, then twist the tape around again and do one wrap to secure it in place.
If you can use the the sticky tape to press the halyard against the mast and twirl it a bit the halyard may stick to the pole enough to pull it down. (Just a thought, I have not tried this idea yet.

)
Oh yes, tie a messenger line to the slide before you try to pull the halyard down, or you'll have the same problem in reverse. When you get the halyard down, tie the other end of the messenger line to the halyard, bring the slide back down, and secure the line to a cleat.

When you need to take the mast down, we'll have another whole checklist for you!

Edited by - dmpilc on 12/14/2011 14:03:58

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2011 : 15:06:17

Most larger marinas have a cherry-picker or similar devise for rigging chores... If yours does, they'll probably retrieve your halyard for a 12-pack of beer (or cash-equivalent).

Most of us have done various of these things... I once did one so stupid my brain has purged itself of almost all of the details. About all I remember is it was unbelievably stupid, involved gasoline, and nobody got hurt. The rest is lost. I'm even sorry now I reminded myself.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2011 : 16:36:00

Somebody I know extremely well, it couldn't possibly have been an old salt like me

, unclipped his main and let the halyard go just a couple of years ago while far from home. Just mention it again when you're ready and I'll detail it. I had a couple of almost good ideas, but it only took a few minutes once I finally had an actual good idea. It sounds like you are more that ready to take on any challenge. There is definitely a sailor in you!

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2011 : 17:39:31

In my very first season with Kaija, I had need to invite the guys from the marina to bring a bosun's chair to find a CDI halyard that somebody allowed to go up the mast without a messenger line. Oooops. Then there was the year somebody launched his boat and as the keel submerged on the Travelift the operator asked: "Uh, Captain, do you have a rudder?" Of course that somebody had a rudder! It was safely tucked away in his garage 60 miles away.

Edited by - on

Tom Gauntt
Navigator

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204 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2011 : 21:31:09

New Wave,

Nice job on getting the forestay re-pinned. Don't worry about the jib halyard at the top of the mast... as the old saying goes, "there are those who have, and those who will." I used a spare halyard and a hook made of a wire shirt hanger to retrieve a wayward halyard once. Just make a hook with a strong loop in it, tie it to the spare halyard, tie a messenger to the bottom of the hook and just work the hook back and forth and eventually you'll snag the snap shackle! Now if yours is a CDI halyard that runs internal without the shackle, you might need a cherry picker to get the halyard back. Don't worry... it happens all the time.

Edited by - on

pfduffy
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Response Posted - 12/15/2011 : 07:35:58

If you're not doing at least one foolish thing for every smart thing you do on or around your boat, you're not trying hard enough!

Edited by - pfduffy on 12/15/2011 09:00:32

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 12/15/2011 : 09:24:35

I used Tom's coat hangar method to retrieve my jib halyard when I lost it. Worked well. If you are talking about the CDI furler halyard you do not have to lower or climb the mast to retrieve it. Which halyard did you lose? There are plenty on here who can advise you on how to retrieve a CDI halyard if that is what you lost.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 12/15/2011 : 10:11:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Sloop Smitten
 I used Tom's coat hangar method to retrieve my jib halyard when I lost it. Worked well. If you are talking about the CDI furler halyard you do not have to lower or climb the mast to retrieve it. Which halyard did you lose? There are plenty on here who can advise you on how to retrieve a CDI halyard if that is what you lost.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I don't know, my CDI halyard required a Bosun's chair to be retrieved when I pulled on the wrong end. I'm just not 20+ feet tall. See my comment regarding our friend Rube Goldberg.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 12/15/2011 : 12:59:52

If it is the CDI halyard that is now at the top then you can do what I have done multiple times, both on a cradle and in a slip; slide the entire furler down off the forestay. I have both retrieved a halyard for a guy, (no pun intended), and installed new units using this method. the basics are you remove the turnbuckle and slide the entire furler off the forestay. You use the jib halyard to haul it back up the forestay, (you will need a messenger on the jib halyard so you can get it back down, LOL), it will take a couple of attempts but you will win.

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 12/15/2011 : 14:13:39

If you're good with a fishing rod and reel, just cast a big treble-hook laden lure up at the top of the mast and reel in the catch of a life time. In all seriousness though, I DID use a big musky lure lashed to a boathook, which was lashed to a broom handle, which was lashed to a whisker pole, to retrieve a halyard. Worked beautifully.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 12/15/2011 : 15:01:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 If it is the CDI halyard that is now at the top then you can do what I have done multiple times, both on a cradle and in a slip; slide the entire furler down off the forestay. I have both retrieved a halyard for a guy, (no pun intended), and installed new units using this method. the basics are you remove the turnbuckle and slide the entire furler off the forestay. You use the jib halyard to haul it back up the forestay, (you will need a messenger on the jib halyard so you can get it back down, LOL), it will take a couple of attempts but you will win.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Frank, you'll recall that New Wave's initial issue was that she disconnected the forestay and didn't know it. I'm pretty sure taking off the turnbuckle, sliding the foil down then reversing the process might be a little more effort than you describe.

NASA spent millions of dollars and a lot of research developing a pen that would write in space. The Russians took a pencil.

Edited by - on

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