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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Mounting hardware on coach roof

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Mountaineer62
1st Mate

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USA
33 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/11/2012 : 14:55:26

Desire to install a winch on C-25 pop-top coach roof(halyard, reefing line,outhaul). Also, running lines from the mast back to winch and stoppers. Is the coach roof strengthened with end-core balsa? Or, is it solid layup FG? Will seal in either case.Any suggestions as to max. size of coach roof winch; am considering a Lewmar 7 or 10? There's not much space between rail and pop-top!
Thanks

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 01/11/2012 : 18:21:42

Lewmar #6 is what I've always seen on the C25 coach roof. This will be used for halyards and such?

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 01/12/2012 : 06:36:27

The cabin top on my boat is fiberglass with a plywood core.

Since the pop top is a moving part of the boat, it would be difficult to belay any lines there and still be able to use the pop top at anchor sometimes. My cabintop holds deck organizers, handrails, and clutches and cam cleats for halyards and a jiffy reefing line, while the pop top holds only the sliding hatch.

You're right that there isn't much room between the hand rails and the pop top, but that's what you have to work with.

Edited by - JohnP on 01/12/2012 06:38:16

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/12/2012 : 07:31:26

The pic below is a Lewmar 7 mounted on the cabintop of my boat. If you look closely, you can see where a DPO had at one time mounted a winch on the poptop!

Edited by - dlucier on 01/12/2012 07:44:26

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 01/12/2012 : 08:13:21

I've got the same setup as Don.

Edited by - on

Ryan L
Navigator

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USA
230 Posts

Response Posted - 01/12/2012 : 13:37:41

Yup... me too

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Joe Diver
 I've got the same setup as Don.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 01/12/2012 : 17:05:00

I have triple clutches on both sides of the cabin top between the handrail and the poptop.
It all just fits.
I have one Lewmare #7 0n the port side (not pictured in the Tech Tip) where I keep the Main halyard, topping lift and reefing line. I rarely use it.
Check out this [url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.com/tech/tech25/tt008.asp"]Tech Tip[/url] of the layout.
I don't have info on the make up of the cabin top but the installation is not reinforced and doesn't leak.
Sorry this is pre photoshop.

*Underlined words are HOT links

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 01/12/2012 : 18:04:45

My cabin top was drilled exactly like Don's except when they drilled for the cleat, they drilled right through the wire for the light inside the cabin.

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2012 : 06:03:43

I've got two marelon winches and expect to mount them soon. I have not looked at the project much yet. ( a 10 year project ) The winches were my Christmas present. I've got a round cut out of the deck from where I installed a vent so I'll measure and let you know my thickness.

I expect to drill out the bolt holes oversized, tape the bottom, pour in some G-flex and redrill the holes for the correct size of the bolts.

Seal up with Polysulfide ( boat life ) and tighten to a good hand tight, wait till it gells up some and tighten down the next day. Apparently it is best to leave the polysulfide oozing out and cut it after it dries, rather than smear it when fluid.

I'll post some pictures of the cutout.

Edited by - redeye on 01/13/2012 06:07:13

Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
468 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2012 : 07:50:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redeye
I expect to drill out the bolt holes oversized, tape the bottom, pour in some G-flex and redrill the holes for the correct size of the bolts.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That's exactly what I did, but I quickly regretted it. The epoxy kept going into the first hole I tried, without filling it up, so I mixed some more and poured it in: still wouldn't even begin to fill up the hole. Then I noticed it was dripping out around the window frame! It was coming out rather quickly, and it was creating quite a mess. Had I not just replaced the previously leaking windows I might have been tempted to just keep wiping until it started to go off, but I'd like to be able to get the windows back out in the future. After quickly removing the window I spent the next 15 or 20 minutes collecting molten G-flex until it stopped (seemed like more came out than I remembered pouring in, but emergencies play with our heads a little).

Anyway, there's evidently unsealed space between the cabin liner shell and the cabin/deck shell on my 1980 model. BTW, when I replaced the windows, that space was evident all around the window cuts; I filled it around the bottom and sides with 5200 to prevent any future leaks from continuing down inside and going unnoticed, and to hold the inner and outer shells together where the gap was excessive (see, there are some uses for that stuff!), but at that time I didn't think there was any reason to seal around the top of the opening.

I've got other holes to fill this coming summer but I'll try forcing some 5200 in first, waiting a couple of weeks, and then reaming the holes with a countersink and filling just the thickness of the shell with gelcoat polyester (the ones in the cabin overhead will require add'l. work to deal with the sagging until it sets).

Some jobs seem so straightforward in theory but get quite out of hand when one actually gets into them!

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2012 : 09:15:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Lee Panza
 ...Anyway, there's evidently unsealed space between the cabin liner shell and the cabin/deck shell on my 1980 model.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Yup--that's pretty much standard. The deck/cabintop come out of one mold and get the plywood core--the cabin liner is another molding. That's why the lower shroud chainplates are backed by large pieces of aluminum (in my case)--to spread the load on the liner. To "overdrill-fill-redrill", fill with epoxy thickened with micro-balloons or glass fibers to roughly the consistency of peanut butter. It will thin a little as the hardener heats it up.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/13/2012 09:17:01

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2012 : 09:58:46

Yep.. I'm sorry I didn't elaborate, I was gonna follow up when I got the pictures posted.

ya might have a gap between the liner and the outer deck. I'm filling with Epoxy putty before pouring in the gflex.

I've also waited for the gflex to kick some so it will not flow as much, a little more of a technique to that...

or microballs...

Edited by - on

Mountaineer62
1st Mate

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USA
33 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2012 : 19:21:53

When mounting the winch is large washers adequate or is it necessary to fill the drilled holes with thickened epoxy (thickened to keep the epoxy in place). Or, is there another solution to mounting and prevent water intrusion into the apparent void?

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2012 : 20:25:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mountaineer62
 When mounting the winch is large washers adequate or is it necessary to fill the drilled holes with thickened epoxy (thickened to keep the epoxy in place). Or, is there another solution to mounting and prevent water intrusion into the apparent void?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Due to the possibility of a void between the cabin liner and the deck core, as discussed above, I would use a backing plate somewhat larger than the winch base, to spread the load on the liner. Over-drilling and filling protects the core from moisture, and is also useful because it forms a "compression sleeve" that protects the liner. But it doesn't protect against water getting into the cabin--that's the job of bedding compound (like polysulfide caulk). Tighten the mountings very lightly to leave a layer of caulk under the winch, let the caulk set up completely (48+ hours), and then tighten fully to compress the gasket formed by the caulk.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/13/2012 20:39:34

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 01/14/2012 : 09:30:11

My cabin top winches are set farther aft than Don's are. They were installed by Catalina when the boat was new. I have them on both sides but only really use the starboard one for the mainsail halyard to snug up the sail. They are Lewmar 6's. The photo shows that they are even with the aft edge of the cabin top handrail. I have removed them for re-caulking and there is wood coring in this area. There isn't any backing plate just round washers. They don't have the stresses put on them like the main winches do and come to think of it they don't have backing plates ether, Just washers.

Edited by - islander on 01/14/2012 09:41:41

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2012 : 06:04:53

This is the deck cutout from the forward/port side of the mast where I added a solar vent. 3/4 inch thick where it is solid and 7/8 inches where the liner and the deck have a gap between them. So the liner is filled in some places with resin, and some there can be a gap of different sizes...

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Dave Otey
Navigator

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USA
112 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2012 : 04:33:58

Great visual Ray. Thanks

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2012 : 06:46:52

I just installed the mast-mounted Lewmar 7 winch in this location:

I had to use a mix of 2" and 2-1/2" 1/4-20" flathead bolts. The deck core wasn't a consistent thickness in this area, it gets thicker as you get aft in the deck, towards the rear bulkhead.

Where I doing it again I'd position the winch about 1/4" farther outboard of the pop top, my lines can find their way down between the pop top and the winch. My clutch is also a little closer to the winch than is recommended, but it works fine for me and having it closer makes it easier to reach the clutch from the cockpit. That is a Spinlock XAS clutch.

This configuration of a Garhauer deck organizer made it easy to run 3 lines back there:

I'm still playing around with my line configuration. In that photo I only had the jib halyard and boom vang running to that port clutch/winch. Now I have the main halyard, jib halyard, and vang there with the reefing lines running to the starboard side.

I have another Lewmar 7, but I'm not sure if I'll mount it on the starboard side. What control lines to others use the winch on, and which ones do you control by hand?

Edited by - on

dolivaw
Navigator

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USA
109 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2012 : 13:03:29

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

What is holding that line on the stanchion? It is B E A U T I F U L ... Not that everything else in the pic isn't. =)

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2012 : 13:14:17

I have used a winch on a halyard a couple of times in the past five years, but the line just goes through a cam cleat and back to the sheet winch. My 3:1 downhaul is more than adequate with a moveable gooseneck for the main, and the Harken roller doesn't much like more tension than can reapplied by hand.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2012 : 04:51:02

I've cut the rail on both sides. the last aft section to leave room for the winches. Drilled and filled the holes. Now that I've looked at everything I'm not comfortable with the Marelon winches ... I had thought I was just adding something to tighten the halyards but now realize the winches are there to crank someone up the mast.

Only one small screw holding the Marelon winch together. I guess next Christmas will be bigger winches...

Live and learn.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2012 : 07:01:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dolivaw
 What is holding that line on the stanchion? It is B E A U T I F U L ... Not that everything else in the pic isn't. =)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ron,

It is a Johnson rail/stanchion mounted cleat that I use for the furling line.

And thanks for the compliment.

Edited by - dlucier on 05/14/2012 07:03:24

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2012 : 05:37:46

I finished mounting the Marelon winches and I love em.

1/4 by 2 inch long flat head screws to hold them.

West Marine is asking $1.29 for the acorn nuts...

Nuts..

Edited by - on

Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
468 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2012 : 21:28:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redeye
 
West Marine is asking $1.29 for the acorn nuts...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Bolt Depot sells 1/4-20 cap nuts (acorn nuts are slightly taller, but who would notice?) for 26 cents each.

'Corse the shipping'll kill ya' unless you splurge and buy up a few of this and an assortment of that and amortize the shipping cost over lots of pieces (you can NEVER have enough stainless screws, nuts, washers, etc).

Good luck with the new winches!

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 06/05/2012 : 05:24:53

<< Good luck with the new winches! >>

Yepper.. It's awfully strange to put plastic winches ( Marelon would have a fit to hear me call them plastic ) But I just liked the price and weight. Figured I'd give them a try...

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