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RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/03/2003 : 16:49:34

I just returned from spending the holidays in the (very wet and cold) Pacific Northwest. Around Christmas, a 300+ foot Chinese freighter encountered difficult conditions (70+ mph winds, 30 foot swells) and was nearly thrown ashore on Cape Disappointment near the bar at the mouth of the Columbia River. When about 2 miles from shore he called the river pilot for help when his engines (lots of hp!) didn't have enough power to make headway away from shore in such conditions. Plus his prop kept popping out of the water. The river pilot was flown onboard via helicopter to help. He fought the battle for a long time, struggling to keep the freighter headed to sea as he kept getting pushed closer to shore. Eventually the winds died down a little, which enabled the pilot to prevent catastrophe. He explained later that many freighter captains don't understand that their engines are adequate in the open ocean, but they are not enough in some conditions closer to a lee shore.

It reminded me of the ongoing debate on this forum regarding the adequacy of 6 vs. 8 vs. 9.9 hp engines on a C25 (and regular vs. long vs. extra long shaft).

RichardG 81 C25 SR/FK "Sanity"

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2003 : 17:21:34

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
...Plus his prop kept popping out of the water...
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Interesting, Richard... Sounds like that freighter needs the SUPER-SIZED Extra long Shaft! <img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2003 : 17:28:46

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
[quote]
Sounds like that freighter needs the SUPER-SIZED Extra long Shaft! <img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Don't we All <img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

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osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2003 : 07:20:31

Richard's story is a parable for us. We should know trhe limits of o/b'c capability. And, avoid being in those situations that exceed that capability. Even tho at times, not by forethought, we may exceed what the boat is capable of.

1.) A friend drove his Ensign with a 3hp and needed to plan his trips on the Hudson between NYC and Nyack with the current. His o/b wasn't sufficient to deal an ebb tide and the river current. He was amazed that osmepneo's 8 could make good headway in those condition.

2.) On my c22 I took far to many out one evening, in what I thought were fairly gentle conditions, only to discover that the sea on Lake Michigan was far more than my pea brain imagined. And, my o/b was unable to keep me from the rocks. Fortunatley, just then the Harbor patrol came by and towed us back to the dock. I had exceeded the o/b's capability and nearly paid a very high price for that.

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5937 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2003 : 11:49:20

On a sailboat, the sails are the primary source of propulsion. The engine is only an auxiliary source of propulsion, i.e., it provides additional help when needed. The engine isn’t usually designed to overcome any conditions that you might encounter. Its primary purpose is to help you manipulate the boat through narrow channels, and around the docks, and to propel the boat to nearly hull speed when the wind dies. Those are uses that don’t require much power, and most sailboats don’t have a surplus of power. In fact, you can’t put an outboard motor on your boat that will cope with any conditions you might encounter. The skipper is supposed to know the limits of his boat, and to avoid situations that exceed its design limits. (That’s the theory, anyway.) It’s good to know that commercial captains make some of the same mistakes we do.

Don provided two examples of situations that you can get into when you exceed the capabilities of your auxiliary engine. Let me add some others.

1) We were motoring north on the Intracoastal Waterway, north of Boca Grand on the west coast of Florida. A major storm was passing through, and creating unusually strong tides, emptying the waters of the ICW and bays into the Gulf of Mexico. We had a chartered Morgan 38 with a 55 h.p. diesel auxiliary engine, capable of pushing the boat to about 7.4 kts when the throttle was opened to the stops. When we started to go through a bascule bridge, we found that we were running against a strong current, and when we got halfway through the bridge, we came to a stop, even though the engine was running wide open and the knotmeter was registering 7.4 kts. We steered the boat out of the center of the channel, and closer to the side of the channel, where the current was slightly weaker, and were barely able to make it through the bridge. If we had not been able to get through, our only option would have been to back out of the bridge and find a place to anchor until the tidal current abated.

2) On that same trip, we were motoring south in Pine Island Sound on the ICW in about 35 kt northerly winds, headed for South Seas Plantation. We passed the channel into South Seas Plantation, and had to turn around and go back. When we put the wheel hard over, the boat started to turn up to windward, but, when the wind caught the bow, it blew the bow back downwind. We couldn’t get the boat to point back into the wind. We tried turning up to windward a couple more times, but were unsuccessful. Finally, we headed south again, and waited for the wind to ease slightly, and opened the throttle, and spun the wheel quickly. She just barely came about, and we were able to head north again. If we couldn’t get her to turn up to windward, we would have had to find a place to shelter until the wind abated.

3) On that same trip, we were motoring out of South Seas Plantation in about thirty kt easterly winds. There was also a tidal current running from east to west, across the ICW. The tidal current was running out to the Gulf of Mexico through Redfish Pass, just north of Captiva Island. When we began to head north on the ICW, the wind, combined with the Redfish Pass tidal current, were causing the boat to drift to the leeward side of the narrow channel. We were concerned that she would soon bottom on the sandy shoals that flanked the ICW channel. We opened the throttle, and steered markedly to the northeast, which caused the boat to crab its way north along the channel, staying just inside the deep water channel until we were far enough north to get clear of the current that was running through Redfish Pass. After we got away from the tidal current, we were able to steer the boat without crabbing very much to windward. If we had not been able to get the boat to crab to windward through that area, we would have been in a very bad situation. We were so close to the lee side of the ICW that there really were no options. We either made it, or we would run aground. Afterwards, whenever we were in the vicinity of a pass, we were on the lookout for cross-currents.

There were more than the usual moments of terror on that trip, but it was a great learning experience, and nobody got hurt.

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2984 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2003 : 13:51:57

Enjoyed your stories Steve...

And, I'm betting prop breakout was the big issue for the freighter.

btw, My reading at the moment is Marlin Bree's "In the face of the green storm". Within, he narrates the loss of the 105' aluminum hulled Grampa Woo. She drug her four ton mooring into Lake Superior and ultimately ended on the rocks with not so much as a valve cover left on one of her three diesels. While the captain got on her as she was dragging, she had been laying propless on the mooring waiting new.

All the power of all the kings horses, useless without a prop in the water.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
R&R N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2003 : 22:45:56

Here's an article with more details.

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/xml/story.ssf/html_standard.xsl?/base/news/104108026846620.xml

RichardG 81 C25 SR/FK "Sanity"

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aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2003 : 10:33:52

I agree with Steve. An aux. motor is for harbor use or as a last resort. It should have adequate power to handle a broad range of conditions in your sailing area. On GALLIVANT I carry five sails, a 60% working jib of very heavy duty construction and a main with double reef points for rough weather. I also practice "lying to" routinely, and try to be very aware of the weather on Lake Superior so that I can either head for the nearest safe haven or, if need be, head out from any lee shore. I have found that the ride with a motor is not pleasant in rough weather and prefer to be powered down under sail or hove to. It doesn't happen often but it is an important skill to know and practice if you sail on big water.

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

Edited by - aeckhart on 01/07/2003 10:35:14

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