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Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Using Spar Varnish on my tiller

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5377 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/01/2012 : 19:01:25

Took the sander to my tiller this weekend and ended up using Rustoleum Spar Varnish on it. See the label: http://www.rustoleum.com/cbgimages/documents/207008_MA_32oz_SparVarnish.pdf

It's coming out really nicely - using several thin coats.

Thinking back to the zillion discussions on polyurethane versus varnish versus cetol, I seem to recall some folks liked varnish, others preferred urethane.

I sanded and stripped off the old urethane (I could almost have peeled it off) and got down to bare wood.

As I started, the varnish was sucked up into the wood immediately, and once the surface became fully saturated after several coats, the surface began to build up.

I'm up to about six coats now and there's a deep lustre. Looks nice.

My question is will it last the season? Will it last 2 seasons? Will I have to keep touching it up? Is it possible to overcoat with polyurethane to protect the surface?

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2012 : 19:17:42

I don't think polyurethane is recommended over varnish... I would give it mild scuffing and a dress-coat of varnish each year to cover any scratches or blemishes. In 5-8 years or so, you might feel the need to start over, which is not exactly hard labor.

Swab the hole with whatever you're using to finish the exterior, and replace the tiller if you even suspect rot in the laminates there (or if somebody falls on it, as they did mine).

I'm one of the non-proponents of Cetol for this application, although I love it for the "non-working" bright-work. Others have different experiences...

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2012 : 20:07:50

If you keep a tiller cover on the tiller when the boat is not in use, 6 coats of varnish should last you several years before recoating, at least that's the experience we've had with spar urethane.

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Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
468 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2012 : 22:42:27

Bruce:

Spar varnish gives a wonderful finish to good wood (putting Cetol on really nice woodwork is like putting steak sauce on good prime rib; of course some people prefer that, too, so we can just leave it as "a matter of personal taste").

But not all spar varnishes are equal in protecting wood. Some have relatively high amounts of UV blockers, some have little or none, and the latter don't hold up nearly as well as the former (but the former are a lot pricier). Z-Spar 2015 Flagship is arguably the best at UV protection, but I don't like the way it flows as much as Epifanes. The UV blockers are sacrificial, however, so an annual recoat, after thorough washing and a light touch with really fine sandpaper (to just break the glaze and provide a slight "tooth" for the new coat to adhere to), are advisable. If it's not postponed until too late, recoating isn't very much more trouble than with Cetol (the deglazing step isn't really sanding as most people think of when they hear the word).

It might make sense to build up the base with a less expensive material and then top-coat it with the high-priced stuff. I've never heard of or read of anyone advocating this approach though.

If you continue to apply any more, be sure to let each coat dry sufficiently, deglaze the surface, and keep putting them on thin. Thick coats skin-over and then shrink as the solvent slowly evaporates, leaving a puckering of the surface. A couple of other things to keep in mind: it's not a good idea to apply varnish in strong, direct sunlight (the solvent might start to bubble out and leave craters) or late in the day (evening dew can cloud a coat that hasn't skinned-over enough yet).

Good for you deciding on varnish for your tiller, Bruce. With teak, Cetol is a good compromise between the practical convenience of oil and the beauty of varnish, but my own belief is that the character of the more interesting hardwoods isn't showcased as nicely with Cetol as with a good deep coating of spar varnish (you're right: the "zillion" discussions on the differing perspectives are quite extensively recorded in the archives of this and a number of other forums).

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3466 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2012 : 03:39:10

I agree with the using of a tiller cover. I am not sure if my tiller has the original coat(s) of spar varnish on it but I think so. All I know is that I have had my boat for over 6 years, use the tiller cover all the time and the tiller looks fantastic - like new. Only area that needs attending to is near the end where it has chafe marks from when I wrap a line around that area to hold the tiller still when dropping the main sail.

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2012 : 04:23:29

When doing our interior wood I cut teh first 2 coats of varnish with varsol. I was told that by thinning it you get a better take-up from teh wood. No idea whether thats true or not, but it sure looks good!

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JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2012 : 06:10:03

The Epiphanes (sp?) instructions tell you to apply the first 3 coats thinned. The first is 50/50 (1:1), then something like 25% and 12%, if I recall correctly. So, I think you had some good avice!

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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2012 : 15:14:04

Man-O-War on my tiller, Going on my 4th season and it still looks good. I do have a cover. Multiple coats is the key.

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awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2012 : 15:43:14

Do the folks with covers have a Tiller Tamer? If so how is your cover designed to handle that?

I replaced our tiller and made a cover for it. Yesterday I moved the tiller tamer over from our previous tiller and realized that it made it difficult/impossible to install the cover (at least as I build it).

The Tiller Tamer may not be necessary, but it potentially seems nice when docking where I'm using the outboard to steer, or when I need to deal with something quickly and don't want to head off course.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2012 : 17:53:58

I am either having a new tiller cover made or my existing one modified with an opening for the Tiller Tamer lines and then a zipper the rest of the way. Disconnecting the lines when I secure the boat is a minor recurring irritation.

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2012 : 09:45:07

<< Disconnecting the lines when I secure the boat is a minor recurring irritation. >>

I run them through small cam cleats. easy to pop out.

I remove the tiller every time.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2012 : 10:15:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by awetmore
 The Tiller Tamer may not be necessary, but it potentially seems nice when docking where I'm using the outboard to steer...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'm thinking you'll not be locking the tiller down and using the outboard to steer around the docks.

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redeye
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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2012 : 11:00:00

<< I've never heard of or read of anyone advocating this approach though. >>

We put on a sanding sealer first and then sand it. Softer than sanding the wood. It also seals up the wood so you don't waste so much time putting on expensive varnish and waiting for it to dry.

Then start adding your layers.

I usta spray out furniture, but mostly my brother William's work.

Fisheye, Japan drier, .. all kinds of additives.

Still using a Critter spray gun, but not often. Kinda wait for the right weather. Often it is so Humid in Atlanta. Got some rocking chairs I need to recoat now.

Anyhoo... yep.. Lee Panza's got it right. Lots of details so it all is hard to discuss without writing a book. Mostly just hit it with some sandpaper every year or so and add another coat.

Right now I'm back to oil myself. Putting poly or varnish out in the sun just seems like a lost cause.. but it does look purdy...

I would never put an oil coat under anything, but I don't think it would be out of the question as you are working with an oily wood anyway. I'd guess you could essentially stain the wood that way, but I'd just use a stain.

Only thing I've never heard mentioned here that I would add, is be careful of that sanding dust from teak and the oily woods.. really not good for your lungs.

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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2012 : 13:26:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Do the folks with covers have a Tiller Tamer? If so how is your cover designed to handle that?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Alex I simply pull the 2 lines out of the jam cleats, Rap them around the tiller and slide the cover on. I keep another piece of cheap line in the coaming box that I then put into the jam cleat then rap around the covered tiller 4 times (this will make sure that your cover never will blow away) then back to the other cam cleat. Tiller and cover are now parked and secured.

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Captain Bill
Navigator

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USA
148 Posts

Response Posted - 04/04/2012 : 10:23:44

I put on 5 coats of varnish on my tiller 3 years ago. Still looks great. It stays on the boat without a tiller cover because my old cover harbored moisture. This spring I'm going to lightly sand it and put on another 2-3 coats of varnish.

Bill

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