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Boat that clueless couple about to buy--thoughts?

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2012 : 19:02:51

We have one member ("tinob"), who has not checked in for a while, whose swinger sank in her slip twice due to a keel free-fall. He retrofitted a wing keel and was a very happy guy--last known to be sailing at 80-something! We've had other reports over the years--a statistical analysis would probably say your chances are minute, but not non-existent. Most reports I've heard were sinkings in a slip, where the keel was up--sailing with it up is not a good idea for several reasons. The reports suggested a relatively slow leak due to cracks in the trunk and the bottom just forward of it--not "a hole in the bottom." As noted, if the keel can stay down in the slip, that danger is not present--nor is it when you're sailing.

SK owners who participate here tend to care for their boats well, and are sensitized to this issue. I could be accused of unjustly denigrating their boats... All I can say is for slipping in salt water, I'd look for something else (as I did). I prefer 1900 lbs. of stationary lead to 1500 lbs of movable cast iron. But I did not trailer the boat or worry much about very skinny water, and my water was salty (as will be yours).

This seller might be honest, but he's also not a stickler about maintenance. "Inspection" of the keel cable and mechanism is not the same as "replacement", which is mandatory at some interval (like three years? I'll defer on that...). As mentioned about the standing rigging, stainless steel (the cable and attachments) can look good and be failing beneath the surface ("crevice corrosion") due to (paradoxically) a lack of oxygen.

One last time: Compare some FK boats. Everything's relative. The fin keel (or later wing) is ideal for living in the water in Long Island Sound. The swinger is good for some other purposes.

PS: Val ("tinob")??? Anybody know about Val?

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2012 : 21:16:33

Swingers require annual inspection of the lift and pivot assemblies and replacing the lift cable and turning ball every 3 years or so in saltwater. There is no risk when the keel is down. There is almost zero risk if you take care of it and have the keel down in your slip. The maintenance and inspection are neither difficult nor expensive, just essential. I have my cables made by a local rigger for a little more than half of CD's price an no shipping. I have owned two swingers over the last twenty-five years with no problems. I can't say how many, but there have been a few keel drops, or, more commonly, newly purchased boats that appear to have had keel drops, but the tales live on for a long time and we usually know nothing about prior owners attention to maintenance. Note that most who are strongly opined against swingers do not own swingers. That is as it should be, but it should also lessen their weight.

As for honest sellers who don't personally maintain there boats, it is easy to be honest about second hand info. I looked at a C-30 with a very nice 80 y/o owner who relied on his marina to do what ever was required to keep the boat up. They told him there was a little moisture in a couple of spots in the deck but nothing that needed attention, and he was sincere when he told me that. There were dark brown streaks on the inside in several critical areas, and my surveyor marked off about 16 square feet of deck that needed to be recored before suggesting that we stop the survey to save my money and find another boat.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2012 : 05:33:59

I've had my boat eight years in saltwater. I've replaced the keel cable and turning ball twice. Last year when I replaced the cable I also replaced the winch, which had become rusty. The swing keel allows me to sail well with the keel down. It also allows me to pull right up to islands in the bay. It also allows me to keep the boat docked behind my house, which only has about 3' water at low tide. Do not fear the swinger!! If you can find a wing, that would be great, but don't expect it to be $3500.00.

Edited by - on

pfduffy
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2012 : 07:15:45

I can relate one account of lifting mechanism failure (although it was not a "keel drop.") As I mentioned earlier, I am the second owner of my boat - my father in law owned it since new before me. The boat has been in the same salt water slip since new - April through November in the water, winters on a cradle in the marina yard.

My father-in-law had not changed the lifting cable or turning ball in approximately 20 years. Because of water depth, the keel is left up at the slip, so the keel is lowered and raised every time the boat is sailed. One day, my father-in-law and a friend were sailing when the tube in the bottom of the hull which holds the turning ball broke out of the surrounding fiberglass. This left them with about a 2" hole in the bottom of the boat. The cabin began to fill with water. Fortunately, they were near the channel leading to the marina when this occurred, but were still over a mile away from the marina. They used the manual bilge pump while motoring down the channel. As the cabin continued to fill with water, the stern started to squat so the crew was sent to the bow to try to keep the motor from swamping. They ultimately made it to the marina before the boat sank where they were given a high volume pump to keep the boat from sinking until they were able to haul it with the travel lift.

The likely root cause for this failure was a seized turning ball which allowed the cable to act like a saw each time keel was lowered and raised. There was a very deep flat spot on the turning ball. My father-in-law thought that the fiberglass in the "volcano" area (the part where the keel cable passes through the bottom of the hull) was very thin.

A couple of lessons learned from this - 1) it would have been helpful if he had something to stuff in the hole in the bottom of the boat to slow the water intrusion. I keep several sections of pool noodles and some nerf footballs in the boat to allow me to create a makeshift plug of any size. If you can cut the rate that water comes into the boat in half, you can double the time you have to rescue yourself and the boat. 2) Keeping calm is essential. He noticed that the motor was close to being swamped and acted accordingly by sending crew to the bow. 3) Maintenance of the swing keel system is critical but the reality is that Catalina built a lot of these boats, built them very well and they can stand up to some abuse.

I bring my children on this boat and feel safe doing so. I inspect the lifting mechanism annually and replace the cable, turning ball, and hose every 2 years. I would love to have a wing keel boat, but more because I would rather not raise and lower the keel every time I sail.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2012 : 07:34:56

We had one drop as it was coming into our marina, it was sinking as we pulled it to our crane. we had to use a car to pull it the last 100 feet because it was dragging through the mud. It had a Jerry-rigged attachment point for the cable on the keel foot; the zinc shackle they used rusted through. This guy was a nightmare owner whose boats always suffered catastrophes.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2012 : 08:34:29

Rob,
I have a swing keel because of the depth where I (indend to) sail, and the fact that the wing keels typically command a much higher price than I was willing to pay for my boat. I'm also cheap - I don't want to put more money into the boat than I need to, unless it is a safety issue or will genuinely enhance the sailing experience. With that in mind, I'm replacing my lifting cable, etc. The kit was less than $150, if I recall correctly, and the repair doesn't seem that difficult (my marina will charge me $90 for the work, since it's still out of the water, if I want them to do it), and its cheap insurance to avoid a bigger problem. If you can sail with the keel down and aren't planning to tralier her often, why not look at a fixed keel?

I should also note that, while there is some talk above about the SK's not being the best choice in salt water (and that make some sense), there are a lot of them out there in salt water. I visited 3 of them while I was looking, and saw SK's by other manufacturers, too, that were kept in salt water. Most of the boats that I looked at were late 1970's to late 1980's vintage, and had had only one or two owners. So, properly cared for, the SK's don't appear to be a bad choice for salt water. (BIG CAVEAT TO ALL OF THE ABOVE - this will be my first season with the boat, and the above is JUST my opinion based on my research).

One note about the water you saw in the bilge - an easy way to determine whether there is something significant going on is to smell/taste the water. I know it sounds gross, and I CERTAINLY wouldn't recommend drinking cups full of the water. But if its salt water (which you can tell by even a drop on the tip of your finger), you'll know you have a problem below the water line. If its fresh water, then it's probably rainwater, and that can be fixed. The caveat to that, though, is that if the rainwater has seeped in for extended periods of time, you may have some damage around where the water entered. I'm not sure if it was mentioned above, but also check the anchor locker to ensure that the drain hole isn't clogged. Shoving a screwdriver in there a few times made a BIG difference for my boat.

Over all, despite the owner not doing a lot of cleaning, etc., the boat looks to be in decent shape - she looks a lot like my 1984 SK.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2012 : 08:55:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I know it sounds gross, and I CERTAINLY wouldn't recommend drinking cups full of the water. But if its salt water (which you can tell by even a drop on the tip of your finger), you'll know you have a problem below the water line<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
An easy way to test the water in your bilge, is to stop by a pet store and buy an aquarium hydrometer. They are about 12 bucks. If the water is salty the hydrometer needle will tell how much.

Edited by - on

Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
468 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2012 : 08:56:00

My boat has had the keel drop twice.

When I first looked at it, there were cracks evident in the aft side of the keel box (which, in a dinette model, is the very visible surface beneath the forward settee cushion). Not bad cracking, but clear evidence of a non-catastrophic drop (it might have happened as it was being raised, but before it got all the way up, but I'm just speculating). The boat was in the water when I examined it, and it obviously had been sitting awhile, but there was no leakage. Also, the interior of the dinette settee showed that a repair had been done (extra glasssing). Satisfied that the damage had been sufficiently corrected, I proceeded with the purchase. I might have presumed that this issue would have alerted subsequent owners to the potential hazard, and that it would have been properly maintained from that time on. Nevertheless, I insisted on having the owner haul it out on the trailer that he was selling with it (partly to assure that the trailer was in good working condition, too).

Sure enough, as the seller was winching it onto the trailer, after having cranked the keel all the way up, we heard a crash and the boat lurched, and it was impossible to crank it further onto the trailer. Although the water was to murky to see the keel and the trailer, the slack cable at the keel winch told the story. The keel had dropped onto the ramp between the cross-bars of the trailer. It was impossible, therefore, to simply lower the boat back into the water and drive the trailer away. We (he, actually, but by this time I was willing to pursue this possible purchase further) were stuck. Fortunately it was a wintery day, so there was nobody else waiting to use the obstructed ramp. We eventually got it far enough onto the trailer (after shearing the pin in the trailer winch and going through a bit of an adventure to find a functional replacement) to haul it out of the water. The only thing that had prevented a catastrophic drop was the fact that it landed on the ramp.

The seller had to get it fixed - or suffer a serious discount on the selling price - and I would have replaced the entire keel-raising system myself as my highest priority anyway, so I split the cost of having it done at the boatyard adjacent to the ramp.

So, that's twice in one boat, if anyone's interested in compiling a record.

Despite that, I'm a strong proponent of the swing-keel model. My personal use will continue to require trailering, when I soon retire and begin dragging that thing all over the North American continent. It'll save me a lot of money by being able to ramp-launch and retrieve, rather than having to pay for a travel-lift, and it'll open up a lot of options to launch and sail in areas without a travel-lift nearby. For the present, it's living on the trailer while I work on fixing it up. I can back my truck right up to the transom and easily load/offload tools, materials, the mast, etc., and if I drop a tool over the side it's not lost. The ramp by this storage yard charges $11 for a launch/retrieval, and the yard charges $100 per month. Since I need to keep the trailer anyway, and continue to pay that rent, the marginal cost to me is the difference between the ramp fees and what it would cost for a marina berth. At my local marina, the rent would be at least $180. per month - if I could get a slip at the minimum size; currently, the smallest size slip available would cost me almost $240 per month. I couldn't possibly take the boat out often enough for it to be more economical to leave in in the water. As for the inconvenience, it takes me about 20 minutes to hook up the trailer, drive it to the ramp, launch the boat, and park the truck/trailer; it takes about 25 minutes to haul-out and park it back in the yard. Yes, that's time that I could be spending sailing, and it pretty much discourages me from going out for just an hour or two, but for a full-day of sailing it's not a serious loss or inconvenience.

So, there's one story from a swinger-owner; obviously a swinger isn't for everyone, but they do serve some of us quite well. Despite the potential hazard and the requirement to change the cable regularly, I would not consider going back to a fixed keel. I doubt I'd even be satisfied with a winger, because when one of those goes hard onto a rocky bottom, or slides into the muck, it's a bit more difficult to get free than simply cranking a few turns on the winch (even when I'm motoring in shallow water, I'll always leave the keel partially lowered). Those with wingers will likely share their perspective on this, I'm sure.

Bottom line: the swing-keel is a great feature for those who can make good use of it.

Edited by - Lee Panza on 04/16/2012 22:33:51

CarbonSink62
Navigator

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USA
208 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2012 : 10:35:06

Summary: Looks like a decent boat at a very good price.

Our boats are very similar in age, condition and price, but yours has a much better engine.

Same colors as mine; my mainsail cover is also very faded.

Some great options yours has (that mine lacks

):

Two tone non-skid
Cockpit organizers (under winches)
Beefed up mast step
Sidelights on pulpit (full 2NM visibility)
Integrated steaming and foredeck light
Proper shorepower and battery wiring (it seems)
Divider between V berth and head
Sink in head
Stove

If you can make your peace with the swing keel (very few reported failures; even fewer catastrophic) I think you should go for it.

You're lucky that it is already in the water, ready to go. Mine has a punch list that I'm only half done with.

Good luck!

Ken

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2012 : 10:47:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Davy J
 An easy way to test the water in your bilge, is to stop by a pet store and buy an aquarium hydrometer. They are about 12 bucks. If the water is salty the hydrometer needle will tell how much.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Seriously? Man, you take the fun out of EVERYTHING! Though, on the plus side, Rob might not contract that terrible intestinal disease...

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2012 : 11:03:11

Lee mentions damage toward the aft end of the keel trunk... I'm suspicious. A free-fall will impact the forward wall of the trunk, cracking it and the bottom of the boat just forward of that--we've seen photos here, often from new or prospective buyers. I suspect (and could be wrong) the crack further aft is from a different cause--a simple mistake somewhere in the boat's past.

Boat yards generally store sailboats by setting them down on blocks under the keel, and then setting stands around he hull and under the bow to hold the boat upright. The keel "stub" part of the hull, to which the lead or iron keel is bolted, is designed and built to support the weight of the boat.

The swing keel C-25 is not meant to be supported by its keel either on a trailer or on the hard. On the hard, it should be set down on support blocks fore and aft of the keel trunk, then have stands arranged around the hull, and finally the keel should be lowered onto a block, which supports about half its weight and unloads the lifting mechanism. (The procedure on a trailer is about the same.) If the entire weight of the hull (or most of it) is borne by the keel inside the trunk, it's actually being borne by the top of the fiberglass trunk itself--you can imagine the sound...

It's important, when a yard will be storing a SK C-25, to make sure they understand this requirement.

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2012 : 13:45:07

As I said in the other thread we are also new owners of a 1984 Catalina 25.

I think your boat is cleaner and probably better condition than ours was. Your boat is a little bit cheaper and your seller is more helpful too (but we got a newer motor, a tall rig, and a fixed keel, all of which I wanted).

The teak is easy to fix. I'll take a photo when I'm down at my boat next, but a little Barkeep's Friend (learned that from Practical Sailor) will restore the teak, and then I revarnished it. A photo will show the good and bad teak on our boat together. The only teak that I replaced were the two pieces that hold the drop boards in place, the originals were broken up.

Our boat was purchased from a previous owner who rarely sailed or cleaned it. The bones are solid, but we've been playing catch up on a lot of overdue maintenance, and I still haven't even gotten around to cleaning and waxing the fiberglass.

The main areas to check would be the swing keel (which I know nothing about since our boat doesn't have one) and the deck to make sure that it isn't decoring and is still solid. The Don Casey book goes through what to look for there.

If the deck laminate is in good condition, the swing keel is in good condition, and with it otherwise sold as described I'd buy it. You'll still need to do some work, but it won't be terrible.

Here are the things that I've done to our boat in the last 6 weeks that I can remember. I'll tag the ones that were required:

required:
* new rudder and tiller (probably not an issue on your boat)
* new mainsail
* new halyards and mainsheet
* replace anchor light and windex
* new batteries (but yours are good)

maybe were required:
* new turnbuckles on standing rigging

optional:
* new cushions
* replace stove
* upgrade all lights to LEDs
* new VHF antenna
* running rigging upgrades (added a topping lift, outhaul, running more of the controls to the cockpit)

good work but not really much money:
* fixed wiring issues
* restored teak

pending in the short term:
* clean and wax
* clean and re-hose the clean water system
* solar vent in the head

BTW: What brand/model of furler was damaged? I have a damaged CDI that came with my boat, and don't need it. I'm not sure about the costs of mailing foil sections across the country, but I could look into it. If anyone in the Seattle area could use CDI foil sections please let me know.

Edited by - on

Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
468 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2012 : 22:27:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 Lee mentions damage toward the aft end of the keel trunk... I'm suspicious. A free-fall will impact the forward wall of the trunk, cracking it and the bottom of the boat just forward of that--we've seen photos here, often from new or prospective buyers. I suspect (and could be wrong) the crack further aft is from a different cause--a simple mistake somewhere in the boat's past.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The damage to the aft end of the keel "box" (not the entire keel trunk, just the tall portion above the pivots, like a dagger-board trunk) is from the head of the keel - that portion of the keel casting that extends above the pivot. When the keel is down at the bottom of its travel (it doesn't hang straight down, but rather it's angled aft) the aft edge of that upper portion of the keel casting comes up to and rests against the aft surface of that box. That's what keeps it from swinging down all the way when the cable is slack.

When that upper portion makes contact with enough momentum behind it, it'll smack that surface HARD. I'm not sure if the traditional model has more material there, but the dinette is limited by the footwell between the seats. Hence the cracking. I'd expect a full free-fall, especially if it should happen while a boat was airborne in slings, could break right through that wall. The other effect of that sudden stop is that the momentum of the keel tries to drive the pivots forward. That can lead to cracking in the vicinity of those pivots.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2012 : 05:38:22

Ahh... Yes, I was thinking of a different spot.

Edited by - on

Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
468 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2012 : 07:27:51

BTW, there was a recent thread here about possibilities of providing some sort of energy-absorbing mechanism in that area to cushion a falling keel. The massive amount of kinetic energy that would have to be dissipated would require a complete redesign and reconstruction of this box to still allow the keel to assume its normal position in regular use but be able to effectively cushion a free-fall. And simply strengthening the box to withstand the force of a sudden stop would then put serious strain on the pivots that they aren't designed to accept. The only way to prevent serious damage from a drop is to prevent the drop in the first place, and that gets back to periodically renewing the lifting system.

The next time I replace my cable, which was recently replaced by the professionals in the boatyard, I want to take a close look at the threaded hole in the keel that the eyebolt screws into: I'd expect to find corrosion damage there unless they used some sort of bedding compound when they screwed the bolt in (I didn't get to verify that).

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2012 : 08:50:38

When I had to repair mine, the repair guy told me that the back wall of that keel box looked to be only about 1/4" thick, if that much. (On a Wed. nite club race, I had caught a channel marker cable, lifting the keel maybe a foot or so before it cleared tha cable and came back down. I heard a muffled thump and felt a little vibration. Suffered a hairline crack which leaked about a bucket per day.) He put down 3 layers of glass cloth over the whole box, which fixed the problem and strengthend the box too.
Here's an 'after' shot. Sorry, no 'before' pics:

Edited by - dmpilc on 04/17/2012 08:54:46

krobsten
1st Mate

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46 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2012 : 18:19:31

Thank you so much for all your incredible helps, folks!! I've taken all your advice to heart and looked at a few other boats while I'm waiting for my surveyor to get around to inspecting the Catalina. Been gathering additional information from other sailors in the area and checking out some other Catalina options. Determined that two of the boats are too expensive and not in much better shape, still waiting to hear back on the third. I also looked at a bunch of motor boats as well to see if I could find a nice deal in my price range. I still have two more boats I want to check out, but I keep coming back to the Catalina. The more people I talk to who have the swing keel, the better I feel about it. If I get the green light on the swing keel assembly, winch, pivot, etc. from my surveyor, then I'm going to get it. I'll probably just pull it out immediately and replace everything for peace of mind, anyway, if I can. If the surveyor feels i can make it through the season (he says I'm hitting the busiest season for fixing boats), then I'll wait until the end of the summer.

I've spent the past few days leafing through the books you folks recommended in order to ask better questions, and I've been compiling a monster checklist that includes all your concerns/advice/observations. I really appreciate everyone taking the time to help with this. It means the world to me to do this, but I feel a little more confident that I can do it right after all your advice. THANKS!

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2012 : 21:16:31

That's one of the selling points of a C25....this place!

We just hope you make a good decision for you, and we get to welcome a new C25 swinger owner to our association! But only if it's the right one and right boat for you....

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2012 : 08:45:26

The C-25 is a very nice boat, but I wouldn't limit yourself just to Catalinas. We also looked at Ericson 25+, O-Day 25, Newport 28, San Juan 28 and some other models that I'm forgetting about. There were some things that I preferred about the Ericson and O-Day, but the boats that we looked at just weren't in good enough condition for us to buy.

The E25+ in particular has a bit more room than the Catalina and headroom is 5'10" or 5'11" so I could stand up. The one that we looked at just had terrible core problems in the deck.

The O'Day we likely would have bought except that a repair on the mast made me nervous. It felt a lot like the C-25 to me, only with a bit more headroom and no poptop.

The 28s were getting in the upper end of our price range and while the extra space was nice it wasn't a major win for me.

The big advantage that I see with Catalina boats are how common they are. Support (through this forum), parts availability (through Catalina Direct and other sources) make a huge difference to me as a new sailor. I also like the simplicity of the C-25 design (everything is easily accessible, no headliners to get in the way) and I like the large QB.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2012 : 09:58:31

Actually I think Frank Butler invented the fiberglass headliner. One wonderful thing about the fully "linered" Catalinas is that with a bucket and a brush the interiors can all look like new. As for easy to get to stuff, well Catalinas are like all boats in that they are hand made and full of surprises, for instance if you ever want to rewire the boat there is no point in trying to pull the old and replace with new, you simply have to invent a new route. Look closely at this typical Catalina issue.

My favorite "other" boat is the ODay 272, all were wings, great head room and no heavier than the 25.

Edited by - pastmember on 04/20/2012 09:59:45

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2012 : 10:13:16

Hah, I can vouch for Catalina continuing it's habit of embedding wiring into fiberglass on the C-250! And it's definitely a trick running new wire/cable to the mast from the breaker panel, but it can be done with a bit of patience and asking lots of questions on here. The PO or PPO on my boat didn't bother, he just ran the coax across the cabin top and drilled another hole into the deck to get outside with the cable.

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2012 : 10:49:44

Sorry, it is the fabric headliner (and wall-mounted carpet) found on many boats that I'm not a fan of. It hides moisture issues and just looked terrible after 25 years. I like the plain fiberglass of the Catalinas.

Catalina running the anchor and steaming light wire through the fiberglass is annoying, but at least it is easy to work around should you accidentally cut it.

The boat with the worst deck moisture problems that we looked at probably would not have gotten to the state that it did had the fabric headliner not been there. The headliner hid all of the brown stains coming through the fasteners. When I pulled it back every fastener had the telltale brown spots from moisture coming through.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2012 : 11:45:42

Yup--you want to be able to see every nut on every bolt for every piece of deck hardware.

The builder of my current boat wanted to carpet the hull inside the cabin--I said NO. It's unlined, uncovered, gelcoated solid fiberglass--cleans up with a sponge.

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OJ
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Response Posted - 04/20/2012 : 14:33:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by awetmore
 . . . (and wall-mounted carpet) found on many boats that I'm not a fan of. It hides moisture issues and just looked terrible after 25 years . . .
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">And if you bring pets on board the carpet can begin to smell like a kennel . . .

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krobsten
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Response Posted - 04/22/2012 : 09:24:58

So we're going to buy the Catlaina 25 listed here. After looking at several other listings in the area (and a few Odays and a MacGregor, not to mention some more motorboats), there didn't seem to be anything that fit our needs/experience/ability level/price range. We also fell in love with the owners of the boat. After we agreed on the price, he sent a note that included a list of things he's going to work on before he gives it to us.

Thank you again, folks, for all the help. This is such a fantastic community, and I hope to contribute my own meager contributions once I get my head out of the "how-to" books.

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