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Meathawk
Deckhand

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USA
6 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/17/2012 : 13:14:35

Hello all. I've spent some time reading previous posts on this forum and there truly is a wealth of information here, so I appreciate any advice you all can offer. I'm on the verge of purchasing a 1986 Catalina 25 SK TR from a family friend who recently moved up to a 30-footer. I have limited sailing experience but I have been looking for the right opportunity to get a boat to learn on and I've heard from many people that the Catalina 25 is a great beginner's boat as well as something you can grow into. The boat is in good condition (and has 4-stroke yamaha, pop-top, pop-top cover, new keel winch & cable, bimini, new cabin & cockpit cushions, etc), and I'm getting a very friendly deal on the boat ($2,500), but of course some issues have arisen that I'm trying to settle before officially taking the plunge.

The boat doesn't have a trailer and is currently on a cradle in upstate New York, and I'll be docking out of Long Island so I need to have the boat hauled. I found a (seemingly) reputable hauler who is very accommodating and can move the boat for $1,500. Based on my research that seems like a fair price, but I was curious if anyone on this forum had thoughts on that matter. This is not a small expense for me, but given the reasonable price for the boat itself, I'm looking at it as getting the boat for $4,000, which still seems like a reasonable deal.

I'm fortunate enough to have a grandmother with a small house on the harbor where I can keep the boat at her bulkhead. The ability to avoid the cost of a slip at a marina really makes the boat affordable given my budget. I have a place to store it in the winter as well, but I'm trying to figure out how I will get it to and from my winter storage spot and how much it will cost. I've contacted a couple of local marinas and haven't gotten a positive response yet. The lack of a trailer and the fact that I won't be docking or storing at a marina means I'd have to find a service that can haul the boat from the water in the fall and take it to my storage yard (about a half mile drive), and vice versa in the spring. Does anyone have any advice for this type of situation or is this somewhat of a unique problem?

I believe I'd also need to purchase stands for the boat (the seller has offered me the cradle, but my understanding is that you can't get the boat from a trailer onto the cradle without a fork lift, and the hauler may not be able to fit the cradle either). I'm really just trying to educate myself on this situation and make sure this will be manageable when it comes time to pull the boat out of the water. Of course, having a trailer would solve most of these problems, but my understanding is that they're rather hard (and expensive) to come by. Would I be best served by scouring my area for a trailer or is finding someone to haul it onto and off of stands a feasible option?

I appreciate any thoughts you might have.
-Kevin

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2012 : 13:31:44

Welcome . . . here's a start

Good luck!

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24932

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2012 : 15:19:26

Kevin,
Forgive my ignorance but is removing the boat from the water a necessity around Long Island? Mine is in So. California so the closest I get to ice is when my glass nears empty.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2012 : 16:13:31

I'll add a warm welcome, too. It sounds like a very good sweetheart deal. I'd jump on it with both feet. An 86 SK TR should sell for at least $4-5K, excluding the move. Will it need a bottom job before relaunching? Will the cradle go with it?
BTW, I've got a C25 fin keel trailer for sale at this time. It's listed in the swap meet section. I used it with my 1984 SK TR.

Edited by - dmpilc on 05/17/2012 16:14:12

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2012 : 16:17:55

The only real problem I see is the spring launch/winter storage issue. I would imagine that the cost of having someone haul the boat and then move it to Granny's then back to the launch facility in the spring would probably justify the cost of a trailer in just a couple of years. Add that to the $1500 for the relocation, and I'm sure it would. If you choose not to get a trailer, does the boat come with a cradle or boat stands? That could be another significant expense. If I were you, I'd seriously consider finding that trailer before the relocation. I'd look real hard at the one [url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24431&SearchTerms=trailer,for,sale"]David has for sale[/url]. (I've never seen it and have no interest in it.)

If it's sitting on its trailer, you might be able to get a cheaper rate for someone to tow it to the coast for you if they only have to hook it up and go.

That leads to another problem, however. Do you have sufficient tow vehicle for a 6500 pound boat/trailer combination? The general consensus is that it will take a 3/4 ton pickup at least. (There are those that will tell you that you can pull it long distances with a VW micro-bus _wrong!!!) Finding one to rent is harder than you'd think.

After you add all this up, you may find that a more expensive boat in the neighborhood is really a better bargain. It's often been said that a $10,000 boat will cost $10,000 regardless of how much you pay for it up front.

Welcome to the group. You'll find a lot of helpful folks and good information here. You'll also find a number of C25 sailors in your neck of the woods that will be very helpful.

Edited by - John Russell on 05/17/2012 16:28:09

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2012 : 18:29:16

Are there any marinas within an hour or two where you might be able to store over the winter?

My marina doesn't have storage facilities so I sail my boat to a marina that does where they haul me out, pressure wash the bottom, then store the boat over the winter then launch me again in the spring. They also store my cradle year round all for about $325.00 per year.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2012 : 19:13:29

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Meathawk
 I believe I'd also need to purchase stands for the boat (the seller has offered me the cradle, but my understanding is that you can't get the boat from a trailer onto the cradle without a fork lift, and the hauler may not be able to fit the cradle either).
I appreciate any thoughts you might have.
-Kevin
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">The cradle might make it easier for the hauler. If not, you could have a scrap yard pick it up - apply the residual cash towards boat stands. Boats this size are usually lifted with a boat lift.

Edited by - OJ on 05/17/2012 19:22:05

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2012 : 19:29:02

When I bought my boat, I had a hauler move it fifty miles and they used a hydraulic trailer to lift the boat, cradle and all, for around $500.00

Edited by - dlucier on 05/17/2012 19:44:07

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2012 : 19:37:04

We brought Iris home on the cradle and parked her in the backyard until we were ready to launch.

Then we picked up a cheap flatbed trailer on CL and bolted the cradle down to it.

Then we sold the cradle and flatbed and bought a boat trailer on the swap here, turned a profit on the stuff we sold and put it into boat improvements.

I believe a trailer will contribute to resale value down the road in ways a cradle cannot. The trailer just ate up all that value in maintenance items.

FWIW, I sold our cradle for $400 to a guy with a C-27.

Here is the cradle coming down the road: http://littleboatiris.blogspot.ca/2009/03/2008-season-in-review-so-2009-sailing.html

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2012 : 19:46:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 http://littleboatiris.blogspot.ca/2009/03/2008-season-in-review-so-2009-sailing.html
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Enjoyed the video Chris - nicely done. Those memories are forever . . .

And the work/logisitcs we will perform for our boats!

Edited by - OJ on 05/17/2012 19:52:39

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2012 : 20:08:29

Thanks OJ.

If the boat is hauled in advance of the truck arriving, have them put blocks under the cradle so the truck can slide in some beams. This will make the hauler happy and save time.

For the back-and forth to the marina each spring/fall, get a flatbed (tandem axle) and set the cradle on it. Pay for extra crane time to get the positioning of the boat over the axles right, then mark the location and have the cradle bolted or welded to the trailer. After that it will run you around $50 - 100 for a tow each spring/fall, depending on who you hire. We hire local towtruck operators.

The "right" thing to do is to buy a sailboat trailer like the one in the swap shop. If you have patience you will find a deal you are comfortable with. Just check teh tires and bearings before you buy. Trust me.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2012 : 21:21:35

OJ linked you to my thread about our recent boat move. I'm not affiliated with All Aboard in any way - just a very happy customer. They move boats all over the east coast. I'd suggest giving them a call to get a rate. Their prices are good, and you know that they have moved a swing keel C25 at least once before, and recently.

BTW, welcome aboard!

Edited by - on

Meathawk
Deckhand

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USA
6 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2012 : 06:56:59

Thanks so much everybody, you've given me a lot to consider. Joe, I'm out of Peconic Bay in Long Island, and while the bay doesn't freeze often, it does happen from time to time so unfortunately I will need to haul the boat out for the winter.

David, thanks for pointing out the trailer you have for sale. I'm going to investigate other solutions some more, but it seems having a reliable trailer would take care of a lot of my issues. Unfortunately, I don't have a vehicle with 6,500 lb towing capacity (my old Ford Ranger isn't quite up to snuff), so that would be another obstacle.

Don, I'm going to contact my local marinas that offer storage and see if I can get a price somewhere in the neighborhood of what you're paying. If I can find a similar deal I think that would definitely be my best option, since I wouldn't have to worry about buying a trailer or hiring someone to haul the boat out. And that price sounds very reasonable for all the service they provide.

Jim, I'm going to get in touch with All Aboard to get a price quote. It's definitely good to know that they handled a C25 recently and did such a great job with it. This is the hauler I've been working with (www.bigorangemarine.com), not sure if anyone is familiar with them. He's been very helpful, but the one issue is that the trailer isn't a flatbed so he'd have to take the boat off the cradle and he's not sure he'll be able to fit the cradle on the trailer elsewhere. While I'm not sure if I'll be using the cradle, I don't want to just leave it upstate in case I ultimately do need it (or decide to sell it on CL or the like).

Again, thank you to everyone for the information and advice. I'll probably be picking your brains some more as this whole process unfolds, so hopefully I don't wear out my welcome too soon!

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2012 : 07:11:48

The setup that guy has is very different from what I've seen elsewhere.

The haulers I have used (3 of them) all came with a trailer that had hydraulics that allowed the trailer to widen/narrow and to move up and down. The operator would back the trailer so that it straddled the cradle, then make it kneel down to the ground. A set of 2 or 3 steel bars slide in under the cradle (why you need to put the cradle on blocks) and are fastened to the kneeling trailer using heavy steel pins about 1-1/2" in diameter.

With the bars in place, the trailer is raised up and drawn in narrow, lifting the boat off the ground and trapping the cradle in place. The full load of the boat is supported by the cradle and the bars. Now the boat is strapped in place with heavy ratchet straps and taken down the road.

The loading process has taken between 30 minutes and 2 hours depending on the skill of the operator and placement of the boat in the yard.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2012 : 07:35:11

When I sold my C25, the buyer rented a UHaul truck for the move to the other lake, distance of about 12 miles. Decal at the hitch said the towing capacity was 10,000 lbs. Piece of cake.

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2012 : 08:21:24

Welcome aboard Meathawk! Sounds like you're getting a super good deal on your boat to begin with....post up some pictures of her when you get a chance!

Once you get your boat....don't forget to register her here, and consider joining the Association with the rest of us....you can get a nice burgee to fly as well.

Edited by - on

Meathawk
Deckhand

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USA
6 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2012 : 08:46:29

Thanks Joe! My first order of business upon closing on the boat is to register her here and join this association (I just don't want to count any chickens!) And I'll take some photos and post the pics when I have a chance.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2012 : 19:56:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Meathawk
 Again, thank you to everyone for the information and advice. I'll probably be picking your brains some more as this whole process unfolds, so hopefully I don't wear out my welcome too soon!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">You won't wear us down, we're like a bunch of babbling brooks . . .

Edited by - on

Chakana
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2012 : 19:58:05

We have a regular ole pick up truck -- 2002 Dodge Ram 1500 with towing package. It hauled our boat over 700 miles like there was nothing back there.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2012 : 20:22:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Chakana
 We have a regular ole pick up truck -- 2002 Dodge Ram 1500 with towing package. It hauled our boat over 700 miles like there was nothing back there.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Uh-oh................It's not the goin' it's the stoppin'

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 05/18/2012 : 20:25:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 When I sold my C25, the buyer rented a UHaul truck for the move to the other lake, distance of about 12 miles. Decal at the hitch said the towing capacity was 10,000 lbs. Piece of cake.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I've called a lot of U-Haul places and have always been told their vehicles couldn't do the job. Did you rent one of the large box trucks? Did you tell them or your insurance company what you were doing with it?

Edited by - on

C25PYLOT
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 05/18/2012 : 21:34:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 When I sold my C25, the buyer rented a UHaul truck for the move to the other lake, distance of about 12 miles. Decal at the hitch said the towing capacity was 10,000 lbs. Piece of cake.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I've called a lot of U-Haul places and have always been told their vehicles couldn't do the job. Did you rent one of the large box trucks? Did you tell them or your insurance company what you were doing with it?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Tell them?
That would take all the fun out of it!

Meathawk, I'm thinking that buying a trailer and renting the Penske (try to avoid Uhaul they're usually junk!) box truck for the occasional haul would cost you the least in the long run and add to your resale if/when you ever do. Good luck with your decisions, I know how you feel I too will be relocating a C25 to my place soon. It's on a trailer and I'll be useing my Jeep Grand Cherokee a v8 thats equiped with the towing package rated for 6500lbs but I still dread the thought hauling that 700 miles. (sorry for the oversized image, I'll fix that nextime I get off the iPad)

Edited by - on

Davy J
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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2012 : 04:21:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I've called a lot of U-Haul places and have always been told their vehicles couldn't do the job.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The U-Haul location near me has actually got signs up advertising that the larger box trucks are capable of towing 10,000 lbs.

Edited by - on

John Russell
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Response Posted - 05/19/2012 : 07:37:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Davy J
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I've called a lot of U-Haul places and have always been told their vehicles couldn't do the job.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The U-Haul location near me has actually got signs up advertising that the larger box trucks are capable of towing 10,000 lbs.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">When I've gone in and asked, I was told that's to pull their trailers, e.g., car trailers, etc. I never really pushed it, I just took them at their word.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2012 : 19:46:22

John, that is the same crap I got from Uhaul. I would have been SOL if I used their truck and anything happened. I tow 850 miles to Pensacola with an '08 Grande Cherokee each winter. With the OHC, 32 valve engine, 4 wheel AL discs, and electronic sway control it does fine, but I keep my speed at 60 - 62. Increasing speed eats up you reserve exponentially.

Edited by - on

C25PYLOT
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 05/19/2012 : 22:57:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Davy J
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I've called a lot of U-Haul places and have always been told their vehicles couldn't do the job.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The U-Haul location near me has actually got signs up advertising that the larger box trucks are capable of towing 10,000 lbs.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">When I've gone in and asked, I was told that's to pull their trailers, e.g., car trailers, etc. I never really pushed it, I just took them at their word.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Don't ask don't tell, it's allmost worked for the military...

Seriously though I guess it's best to let your conscious be your guide.. I don't work for Penske or even own stock in them but my last experience moving myself down south was so good I wanted to add/share that they only lease vehicles no older than a few years old.Their web sight will quote you a rate. I've rented some Uhaul stuff that seemed like it was back from the 60's. Sorry to go a little off topic. Food for thought ,maybe someone on this board could rent/loan you a trailer to help you get on track(?) There are some great people on this forum! Maybe make another post asking if anyone local to you could help? I'm too far south (SC) or I would myself. Good Luck!

Edited by - on

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