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Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2012 : 08:49:44

It's been a while since I changed from a two battery bank to two batteries in parallel, but I seem to remember two separate "+" and two "-" leads going to the selector switch.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2012 : 14:13:57

The Ahr rating is best to go by in a deep cycle battery. I just Googled the battery and it was just below the Interstate sites, Around 4-5 down the list.http://www.atbatt.com/product/24024.asp

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2012 : 18:08:25

So based on the 1152 Wh rating of my batteries and calculating a 70 watt load ONE of these batteries should be able to power my boat for 16.4 hrs if I drained it. So realistically I should be able to run approx 6.6 hours and still have 60% left in the battery.

The 70 watt load (probably way to high) is based on 10 watts per bulb for: nav lights (bow and stern), two interior fixtures with 2 bulbs each, and the radio at 10 watts. Realistically one would never run with the interior lights on while underway and especially for the full time period so maybe 30 watts would be more applicable.

For comparison, the Stowaway batteries Joe bought are rated at 1260 Wh's and with the same load would power the boat for 18 hours to drained and approx. 7.2 hours to 60%.

Using two batteries in a bank Joe's batteries would power your boat 1.2 hours longer than my batteries. 14.4 hrs vs 13.2 hrs.

Edited by - GaryB on 05/26/2012 18:15:59

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2012 : 05:06:28

A word of caution on battery ratings, These numbers are from the manufacturer and not an outside testing lab so its in their favor to bump them up some. I would take these number with a grain of salt. Also as the battery ages they will go down.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2012 : 12:09:57

After being told as I was walking out the door that Interstate just changed it's warranty I started reading up last night. I'm getting the impression that Interstate must have gotten sued either individually by multiple people or in a class action lawsuit. It doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling about my new purchase.

I'm toying with taking them back and getting the Stowaway's which I think have a longer warranty (can't tell because the Academy website is not working right now) plus they are cheaper than the Interstates.

Forgot to mention, in reading in multiple owner reviews and a few forums it sounds like most of the deep cycles have issues and don't last to much longer than 2 years unless you go with the really high priced >$150 batteries.

So you pays your money and you takes your chances!

Edited by - GaryB on 05/27/2012 13:14:32

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2012 : 13:12:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 Forgot to mention, in reading in multiple owner reviews and a few forums it sounds like most of the deep cycles have issues and don't last to much longer than 2 years unless you go with the really high priced >$150 batteries.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Word! You get what you pay for and for me, good batteries are important. Lights, vHF and power for the bilge pump are essential and therefore the batteries should be considered safety equipment.

Buy once. Lift onto the dock once...

sten

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2012 : 20:26:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Davy J
 It's been a while since I changed from a two battery bank to two batteries in parallel, but I seem to remember two separate "+" and two "-" leads going to the selector switch.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Update:

Looking at my battery situation yesterday while at the boat it appears that there are two # 4 red leads coming off the switch. One for battery #1 and one for battery #2.

There's one #10 negative coming off the one battery currently in the boat. I believe it goes to the negative side of the bus bar. I seem to remember there being another short #4 negative wire going from bat #1 to bat #2 then the 10 ga wire going to the bus.

There is a #10 positive wire coming off the common leg of the switch going to the master breaker.

Looking in the manuals for the post '88 models it appears my boat was originally wired properly. I just need to find/purchase the other #4 negative wire to go between the batteries.

If this doesn't make sense please let me know!

Edited by - GaryB on 05/27/2012 20:28:58

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2012 : 05:19:53

Gary,

I have one positive lead from each battery going to the battery switch and I have one negative lead off of one battery going to the negative bus bar. There is also a short wire connecting the battery negative terminals to each other. I normally leave my battery switch in the "both" position.

Comment regarding battery cost, you get what you pay for, etc, etc.
Cost is not always a good way to predict reliability. A more expensive car does not guarantee greater reliability. In the case of batteries, sometimes going by others experience and by reviews such as in Consumer Reports helps rate the playing field when it comes to batteries. However, the way the batteries are maintained has a lot to do with their reliability thru the years. While it is always possible to wind up with a battery with a dead cell, oftentimes, batteries die prematurely because they are not recharged properly. There are examples in this posting thread how some of us have gotten long life out of relatively inexpensive batteries. I am not saying that one should always get the least expensive product. certainly, I have gone with plenty of high cost items (Quantum sails, Honda outboard, etc) vs less expensive solutions. Just that with batteries a lot has to do with how you maintain them. One post indicated Walmart batteries lasting over 7 years and in my case, I have 2 West Marine flooded batteries ow pushing over 7 years and each of those batteries cost well under $100 each back in their day and I believe they are still under $100 now.
Based on my past experiences, when my present set of batteries give up the ghost, I probably would not hesitate to find another set of batteries similar to them. But if you are coming off of bad experiences with batteries, I could see that would influence someone to go with more expensive, higher cranking amps and hopefully more reliable batteries. Just that utilizing a solar panel or charger to maintain the batteries on a regular basis will help ensure battery reliability regardless of intitial battery cost.

Edited by - OLarryR on 05/28/2012 05:22:26

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2012 : 09:47:47

I bought two group 24s when we got our boat, and now I'm thinking that it's probably overkill. Between light electrical loads (all of our lighting is LED, so the main loads are a car stereo, depth gauge, and VHF), a 20 watt solar panel, and an alternator in our outboard it seems like the batteries barely have a chance to drain down. I have them run in parallel and the depth finder includes a handy always-on voltage meter. This weekend the farthest that they dropped was 12.7 volts (so basically still a full charge). Even in fairly grey weather yesterday the solar panel seemed to keep up with the VHF radio and depth finder, but I've never measured the current to really see that. I've considered switching back to one battery to get a bit of storage space back and to reduce starboard weight on our boat (it seems to list a bit in that direction since both batteries, the motor, and the water tank are starboard...port only has the galley, holding tank, and small fuel tank to balance things out).

I do wonder if our Tohatsu outboard is running too high of a charging voltage for them given how topped off they always are. It outputs 14.3 or 14.4 volts at cruising throttle (about 1/4 throttle) which is better suited for quickly charging than maintaining a float. What do others do about that?

My battery switch is wired the same way as Larry's.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2012 : 11:12:55

My old batteries were in the boat before I bought it and they lasted until just recently. I have a Xantrex battery charger and have always tried to keep them charged up so I haven't had too bad of an experience since they lasted 3-1/2 - 4 years that I had them. On top of that I noticed a few weeks ago that my batteries are different makes and made for different purposes (1-Dual Purpose and 1-Deep Cycle). I don't have electric start.

I was just stating that in reading recent customer reviews on multiple sites that it seems like some percentage of batteries from all the places you can buy batteries have problems and the deep cycles don't seem to be lasting near as long as they used to. What you don't always get from these reviews is the truth how these batteries were used or maintained (some people just like to jump on the band wagon when they hear someone else complain).

Personally, I always had good luck with Interstate batteries but it's been 10-15 years since I had them in my boat and they were cranking batteries that got used frequently. I also had one in my Maxima that lasted at least 5 years. The unknown is which battery manufacturer (Johnson Controls, Exide, etc..) made those batteries at that time and who's making them now.

I changed my mind again today and I'm just going to keep the Interstates I bought the other day even though I paid a little more than I would if I went to Academy and got the Stowaways. It's not worth driving another 20 miles to take them back and then standing in line at Academy.

I'm actually kind of thinking that going with two 27's is overkill anyway. I rarely go out at night and if I do I only go out for 2 - 3 hours although I am planning (may never happen) on going out more at night this year simply because it's cooler at night. When I'm at the dock I'm on shorepower.

Edited by - GaryB on 05/28/2012 11:19:58

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2012 : 17:29:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
I'm actually kind of thinking that going with two 27's is overkill anyway.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It's better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

Edited by - Joe Diver on 05/28/2012 17:30:25

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2012 : 16:18:00

Thanks everyone for your replies, digression, extra great info.

I've decided on a couple of Walmart group 31 batteries. They're the best value proposition. Being on an inland lake with shore-power and an outboard that I can pull start makes this an even easier decision.

If I was going to make the trip to the Bahamas for a few weeks (which I think is the most adventurous I'd get on my Cat25), I think I'd just add more Walmart batteries in parallel and some solar panels, rather than spring for a more expensive brand, again due to the value proposition of the Walmart batteries.

Edited by - on

dragonf1y
1st Mate

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USA
34 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2012 : 13:14:27

Thanks for this thread it's been a good read.

After an eventful weekend a couple weekends ago, realizing how old my batteries are now, and how dead my deep cycle is, I'm shopping for new batteries this weekend. My current batteries are an Exide Nautilus XXHD-M-24 (1000MCA!) and Exide Nautilus NG-24 seen here http://www.blue-water-marine.com/batteries.html

I have a Yamaha 9.9 outboard with electric start and an alternator. The 1000MCA seems like overkill to me for this engine, but I suppose it's served me well for the past four years I've owned the boat so perhaps not. The starting battery still seems okay, it's the deep cycle that's done. They are both 10 years old from manufacture date so they are being replaced together.

I'm inclined to just get the same ones (any idea if what stores carry them?). They lasted 10 years and prior to me owning the boat I doubt they were really charged other than by the engine. My boat came with a 'free' Cabela dual marine charger which hadn't been installed. I installed it about a year after I bought the boat. It's pretty basic and just has a standard AC plug. I have it mounted on the aft vertical side of the starboard settee it's mostly out of sight, but has air to keep it cool. I usually start my engine on both batteries on the selector switch (they are in parallel). If we're going for a day sail it just stays there all day. If we go for overnight(s) when we get to our destination and we're not going to run the engine any time soon I switch over to '2' which is the deep cycle. This has worked fine for us. We usually don't go over night for more than like 3 nights in a row. Work and the size of the 25 have limited how long we spend on it in a row. We prefer buoy or anchor over marinas (which is part of why we'll soon be moving up in size).

My current batteries are in individual battery boxes which eats up a lot of space, but keeps them from moving around. I have a 1981 and both my batteries are under the starboard settee aft (forward of that is the water tank). I have thought about getting rid of the battery boxes and upping the size of one or both of the batteries. Having read through this thread it sounds like some have boxes and some don't. Assuming I measure and fill the space, or add some blocking to hold them in place, it seems I could get rid of them. I have added an inverter this year to the deep cycle http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2o_zRL6ACY to charge my dinghy's outboard Torqeedo electric battery packs when we're overnighting so there might be more battery drain this year. But, as the sun doesn't really set until almost 10pm in the PNW in the summer, we don't use much electricity other than to charge phones/batteries and for light for an hour or two before bed. My wife bought me a portable solar charger for Christmas and that's already proved valuable when we didn't have battery power a couple weeks ago to keep our phones charged as well.

Sounds like people have reasonably good experience with Walmart batteries and as there's one right up the road versus an hour round trip drive to say West Marine, I've been looking at them on their website. No pricing listed, so I have to head into the store.

So I need to decide if I'm going to:
1) Stick with a high MCA starting battery and NG24 deep cycle,
2) Get a starting battery and a larger deep cycle battery jettisoning the battery boxes. (I'm leaning toward this - keep doing what I've been doing, but get a larger deep cycle)
3) Some other combination of multi-use starter/deep cycle.

I'm planning on selling soon, but I want to leave the new owner (and myself in the meantime) with a decent setup.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2012 : 17:30:46

There i no point in getting a starting battery for a 9.9 outboard. A deep cycle is fully capable of generating the 30 amps or so that is required, so 2 dc's are the best package. For those with a 1-2-B switch, there is no reason to be in the B position for normal use. It defeats the value of the switch in that if you have an unexpected drain or a failed battery, you no longer have a reserve.

Edited by - on

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