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1st Bottom Job - Help! - What's this pink stuff?

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sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/19/2012 : 20:32:01

Hello everyone,

I'm doing my first bottom job on my Catalina 25 (including inspecting/replacing swing keel hanger and lifting hardware). The PO never did a bottom job on the boat and doesn't know what paint the previous PO put on it or how to get in touch with him.

I'm sanding it down to fiberglass, and then applying 3 coats of VC-17 which I saw recommended on this forum. Thanks for that.

So as I'm sanding away the bottom, I encounter a pink layer of something, then white, and then red, and then brown/grey. I think the pink is the previous primer, the white is the fiberglass gelcoat, the red is something beneath the gelcoat, and the brown is the fiberglass core.

(In case your wondering, I'm not sanding too deep, but I see these layers as the blisters get sanded down. I'm pleased to report that these blisters are tiny, less than 1" in diameter. You all will be happy to know that owners of several other makes of newer boats have come by to inspect the work and have all been impressed with the lack of blistering compared to their boats (especially Hunters), and eventually they comment that it must be because its a Catalina, but none of this is the point.)

Can anyone comment or verify that the pink is a primer, the white is the gelcoat, and the red is something else beneath the gelcoat (a warning layer?)? I'm sanding every day after work and have to finish my bottom job by Sunday evening because my lift time is up. I need to know if I should be sanding away the pink layer so that the hull is all white. So any quick comments I appreciate. Thanks!

Seth
"Outlier" 1987 Catalina 25 SR/SK/Traditional Interior #5541
"Zoo" 1977 Morgan Out Island 30
"Nomad" 1980 Prindle 16
"Lost" 1988 Catalina Capri 14.2 (sold - yay!)
"Marine Tex 1" Unknown Origin POS 8' Fiberglass Dinghy
https://whichsailboat.com/2014/07/27/catalina-25-review/

Edited by - sethp001 on 06/19/2012 20:37:35

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2012 : 20:40:48

Are you sanding all the way through the gel coat? You'll see a translucent layer with fibrous material (the fiberglass) if you are. Unless you have a very specific reason for sanding away the gel coat, you don't want to sand through it. I'm not sure what the pink is. I don't own a C-25, but I never saw anything like it when doing the bottom job on my C-250 last year. If you're planning on sanding down to fiberglass, you're setting yourself up for a very large job. Fiberglass by itself is somewhat porous, the gel coat is designed as a waterproof barrier between the glass and the exterior of the boat.

Are you day sailing your boat? VC-17 is a great racing paint, but it's not designed to prevent bottom growth (trust me, I know).

Edited by - on

Tim M
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 06/19/2012 : 20:58:02

I'm not sure on the pink stuff as the factory went through different lay-up procedures over the years and maybe someone who's done similar work on the same year will chime in. It sounds like you're headed in the right direction but once you are all sanded down to gel-coat and after filling all the blister dimples, you need to roll on 2 coats of clear epoxy resin as a barrier coat before painting with V17. It is very important to seal the gel-coat and protect it during the next bottom job. Wipe down good with acetone (not laquer thinner) before applying and don't sand between coats. Scuff lightly with Scotch-brite after set-up just before the bottom paint. A little roller-dimple in your bottom paint is a good thing, it helps it ablate - which helps re-activate the growth-killing action.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2012 : 21:46:11

Seth--what conditions are you sailing in--fresh or salt water? What kind of fouling? (...slime, barnacles, mussels, grass,...) All of this greatly affects the choice of paint.

If you've cut through the gelcoat (not a great idea), you really should apply an epoxy barrier coat like Interlux Interprotect 2000 (multiple coats per the directions). Bottom paints do not protect against water permeation that causes blistering (and worse).

Also, VC-17 doesn't ablate--its purpose is to provide a very thin, smooth surface for best performance--good for racing in fresh water, but not a good choice for general sailing in salt water. (??)

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Tim M
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 06/19/2012 : 22:31:14

Unless you're going to do nothing but race -even then the advantage is dubious -and you have lots of time and/or money to spend to keep your bottom scrubbed, why would you want to use something that did not ablate or help keep the bottom clean?

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rrick
Captain

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USA
261 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2012 : 00:20:35

Polyester body filler is pink (Bondo). Scratch off some interior bilge paint to also see pink in the fiberglass. Possibility the boat was painted pink for a specific kind of boat parade.

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Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2012 : 06:31:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rrick
 Possibility the boat was painted pink for a specific kind of boat parade.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Tribute to [url="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053143/"]Operation Petticoat[/url]?

Edited by - Joe Diver on 06/20/2012 06:32:52

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2012 : 09:12:00

Post some pictures before you continue too much farther.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2012 : 12:36:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 Also, VC-17 doesn't ablate...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Tell that to my leading edges.

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2012 : 19:59:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Also, VC-17 doesn't ablate...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Tell that to my leading edges.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...where the paint gets knocked off by the debris in L. Erie.

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sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2012 : 20:10:51

Hey guys, thanks for all the replies so far. I'll take some photos and post them tomorrow or Friday. So far, I'm just sanding into the pink primer, but there are some areas where I've gotten down to the white gelcoat. And there are some small blistered areas that, because they were raised off of the rest of the hull, were sanded into the fiberglass core when the surrounding area was sanded to the pink primer or white gelcoat.

I sail in a freshwater inland lake in Virginia. Primary fouling concern is slime. The boat had an ablative paint on it, but it only ablated at the waterline. Beneath the water line, there was so much scum that it was hanging from the boat. This could be because the two previous owners never sailed the boat and so there was no ablative action except at the waterline. Despite my heavy use in the last year, the ablative action still has not done anything.

The club to which I belong has a "rail lift", which is a railroad car with 4-posts and boat support straps, which is lowered down a track into the lake by a steel cable connected to a winch. You float the boat on the straps, tie up to the posts, and ride out on the rail car. Its a neat old system, novel way to handle haul outs, built in the 1950s I think. I plan to pull the boat out each spring, power wash the bottom and apply another coat of the VC-17.

I need to read more about the barrier coat. The VC-17 data sheet indicates it should be applied directly to fiberglass gelcoat, but I'm through the gelcoat on the blisters.

Edited by - sethp001 on 06/20/2012 20:28:54

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2012 : 09:06:17

I just got off the phone with Interlux. They recommend the Interprotect 2000 going on before the VC-17. I can also put it directly on the cast iron keel now that VC Tar 2 is discontinued.

By the way, their technical help desk guys seem to be really good. I've called them twice and was impressed with their knowledge, helpfulness, and relaxed attitude - they're happy to spend as much time on the phone with you as needed and you don't feel rushed to get off the phone.

Edited by - on

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2012 : 09:09:43

Anybody with experience with Interprotect 2000 know how many coats I might get out of a gallon?

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2012 : 10:35:20

I went thru a major blister repair this past winter. My website has all the gory photos from start to finish. The blisters were into the laminate. 4 boxes of Interprotect (1 gallon of it plus believe it is 1 gallon of hardener) were used to apply 7 coats of Interprotect 2000 after the blister areas were fiberglassed over. No areas were epoxy filled. (The blisters were so bad, they went with fiberglass mat and epoxy resin.)

After the Interprotect was applied, 2-3 coats of copolymer/ablative anti-fouling was applied. I get them confused if it was Micron XT or Micron Extra - One of them is the copolymer or at least current Micron copolymer anti-fouling paint. which I had used in the past with very good results for 4-5 years and so I went with it again.

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putzmeister
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Response Posted - 06/22/2012 : 18:17:01

I achieved 10 mils with 5 coats using ~1 3/4 gallons. I forget what length nap = the least amount of stipling.

A friend mixed an entire gallon with the catalyst thinking it would not cure until after he applied it

Good luck

Edited by - putzmeister on 06/22/2012 18:19:41

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2012 : 12:14:48

Here's the link to a couple of photos of the bottom. What do you guys think?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/81052370@N03/sets/72157630253562506/

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2012 : 13:30:24

It looks to me like the "pink stuff" is the outermost layer of resin, inside the gelcoat and covering the outermost fiberglass mat (the random fibers). That matting must be well covered to prevent water intrusion along the glass fibers, which can cause serious delamination. Iterprotect 2000 (basically a thin epoxy) is probably as good as anything to do it. I'd start with the I-2000 on the exposed mat--several coats until you don't see a pattern from the glass, and each coat covering a slightly larger area (to feather to the surrounding glelcoat. Then do the entire hull below the waterline.

You're on your way to a beautiful bottom!

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 06/23/2012 13:34:12

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2012 : 19:45:52

Thanks for the replies guys.

Good news is I've secured another week on the lift to finish this bottom job.

Stinkpotter, when you're referring to the "pink stuff", are you referring to the darker pink, more reddish color? I think that darker pink, reddish color, is just above the fiberglass core and beneath the white gelcoat. Does that sound right?

And then is the lighter pink an old primer that I should finish sanding off?

Edited by - sethp001 on 06/23/2012 21:57:15

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2012 : 20:58:26

Yes, the darker is probably part of the lamination process, and apparently is the resin applied to the outermost fiberglass mat (with random strands designed to hide the distinct pattern of the woven roving in the structural laminates below. I have no clue about the pink, except it appears to be below the gelcoat--not a primer on top of it. So it's apparently part of Catalina's layup process. The primary issue IMHO is to cover that exposed fiberglass mat with a substantial layer of resin (epoxy, as in I-2000). But personally, I'd ask a professional--the one I know here advises me and reluctantly accepts a $20 bill (or more) for a few minutes of his time. (I value his time.) You want to get this right--it could come back to bite you in a pre-sale survey.

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 06/24/2012 : 04:06:46

Fresh water lake, and FGR/Paint/Primer sandings all over the ramp

Paul

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sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 06/24/2012 : 05:58:55

Paul, the boat's not on a launch ramp but on a rail car about 100' from the water's edge. The rail line comes up a gentle incline from the water to level ground in a wooded area. It also has a gravel bedding/lot beneath.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 Fresh water lake, and FGR/Paint/Primer sandings all over the ramp

Paul
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

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Boomeroo
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Australia
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Response Posted - 06/24/2012 : 06:12:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by sethp001
 Thanks for the replies guys.

Good news is I've secured another week on the lift to finish this bottom job.

Stinkpotter, when you're referring to the "pink stuff", are you referring to the darker pink, more reddish color? I think that darker pink, reddish color, is just above the fiberglass core and beneath the white gelcoat. Does that sound right?

And then is the lighter pink an old primer that I should finish sanding off?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Seth, I do wonder about the red . If it is just above the Glass then it may well be the gel coat with a later white paint job . The red is very much the colour of the red gel coat used at that time ..
graeme

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sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 06/25/2012 : 13:50:00

Stinkpotter, you are correct sir!

I just got off the phone with Kent at Catalina in CA. The dark red color is a catalyst that Catalina used on the fiberglass mat to make sure the gel coat adhered. The white color is the gel coat. That means the pink is a previously applied primer.

Thanks everyone for your replies.

Edited by - sethp001 on 06/26/2012 07:46:51

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2012 : 10:06:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by sethp001
 Stinkpotter, you are correct sir!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Every now and then I get lucky...

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