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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Mast raising Butch's Fabulous Method

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MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/15/2003 : 01:50:49

I just got back from our club meeting where I was talking to my friend Butch Douglas. Butch has an O'Day 25 and a trailer which he uses for many trips. My friend does a lot of moving of the boat by himself and has come up with many back saving devices, the latest of which I have to share with you.
Butch has made a prototype and used it last weekend to raise his mast, heaver than my std. rig, by himself. First he uses a crutch at the rear, much like the one I have shown in my previous posts, to rais the mast part way up. He's comming up with a crank for this so he doesn't have to labor to hard for this too. Then he attaches a second extendable crutch to the post at the bow of the trailer. This second crutch has a V - roller fitting at the top for a rope to ride on. He has a rope attached to the top of the mast, I think using a halyard. This rope goes over the V pulley and hangs in the front. To the end of the rope he attached about 45 lb weight, he used a few jugs filled with water. This weight allowes him to easily lift the mast by him self and keep excellent control. He told me that kinks in the stays were no problem. He just let go of the mast and the counter weight kept the mast where he let go. As he got near vertical he had to pull back to keep it from going too fast. With his testing he adjusted the weighted end so that when the mast was in the fully raised position the rope was at the ground. When parking he had the trailer pointed somewhat down hill so that the wighted end would hang free and not get stopped by the trailer.
Butch told me his son suggested he patten the design it worked so well.
Again I haven't seen it, I made the drawing from his description. I think I am going to try and put one together for my trip next month to San Francisco Bay. If I get it I'll let you know how it goes. If any of you out there looking for a winter project try it let me know how it works.
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df35b3127cce93eaf2f2b0c90000001410" border=0>

Matt/Brigitte Loeffler
E.C. Rider
Cat 25 86'
FK/SR _/)

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 01/15/2003 : 10:17:57

The technique shown is basically relocating the gin pole from the deck to the trailer tongue. Doubt if there's any patentable structure here... there's about 6,000 years of "prior art" on gin poles, pulleys and counterweights.

Since the mast base level is about 7' off the trailer, and you'll want the gin pole to be at least 6 to 8 feet above that, I think the main challenge will be to design a convienent way to haul/store/deploy a 14'to 16' mast (of adequate strength) from the trailer tongue. For sure do-able, just $$$.

A permanently mounted (and fairly substantial) 8' high base with an internal telescoping section should do... just a matter of clever fabrication. Ditto a telescoping mast strut for the stern.

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

Mark Maxwell
Captain

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USA
329 Posts

Response Posted - 01/15/2003 : 10:34:06

That is just what the newer C250 folks use. Except for the 45lbs. They utilize the boat winch mounted on the trailer.Works well.

<img src="http://www.chaplin-nest.com/unkarock/usflagwav.gif" border=0>
Mark-
'Impulse'
C25 #533 DINN/FIN ~_/)~
Bakersfield, CA.

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 01/15/2003 : 12:04:06

Butch said he likes the weight better than the winch because he doesn't have to handle it and can do it all from the deck. He did make his extension on the trailer as a telescoping unit.

Matt/Brigitte Loeffler
E.C. Rider
Cat 25 86'
FK/SR _/)

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1775 Posts

Response Posted - 01/15/2003 : 12:06:21

Hi Matt,

I like this idea, but, as I see it, it has at least one drawback ... you have to have the boat on a trailer to raise or lower the mast. I admit, there might not be that many times you want to raise or lower your mast while the boat's in the water, but it does happen.

I use the A-frame method, which also uses the "crutch" by the transom to get the mast tilted up initially. Once the mast is up slightly, there is enough leverage to hoist it the rest of the way. I have a block attached to the plate where the forestay attaches, and that allows me to run a line from the jib halyard back to a cockpit winch. I simply winch the mast up slowly and watch for tangled shrouds. If a shroud gets tangled, I cleat the line off and take care of the tangle, then I winch the mast up the rest of the way ... works like a charm.

Please don't get me wrong ... I'm not beating up on the idea ... I think it is cool. I learn a lot by seeing how others have tackled problems that are common to all of us ... this is a good one!

Buzz Maring, C-25 SK/SR #68, "Freya"
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df23b3127cce9306a9b3abad0000001010" border=0>

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5937 Posts

Response Posted - 01/15/2003 : 12:17:47

If you tie your shrouds to your lifelines with flimsy rubber bands, or something similar, then when you raise the mast, the turnbuckles on your shrouds won't get bent. The rubber bands will snap as the mast goes up. My problem is that I always forget to bring rubber bands.

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

Edited by - Steve Milby on 01/15/2003 12:19:56

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/15/2003 : 15:44:36

I've used a simple variation of this technique without the use of a gin pole. First, I used a crutch at the stern to get the mast at an angle similar to that in Matt's illustration. Next, I tied a long line to the end of the forestay. This line is quite long(the longer the rope, the better the angle) and it enables someone to walk a good distance in front of the boat to increase the leverage on the mast similar to what is going on in Matt's illustration with the forward pole. This makes raising the mast a little easier and simpler because one person is on stable ground pulling on the mast and while a second person is at the mast helping and guiding it up. Since very little effort is needed to hold the mast once it is all the way up, the person on the boat can hold it while the other person unties the rope on the forestay and inserts the clevis pin to secure the forestay.

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
C25 SR/FK
Cradled on the hard, 200ft from Lake Erie

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/15/2003 : 16:23:18

While we're on the subject of mechanical advantage, I would urge caution when using winches(trailer, cockpit, electric,...etc) and multiple purchase block and tackles when stepping the mast. It seems that no matter how well you plan and prepare when stepping the mast, sometimes things don't go as planned(Murphy's Law) as the mast is going up(cables getting hooked on a cleat, a kink in the shrouds, upper shroud doesn't slide at the spreader, baskstay getting fouled,...etc).

How many of us have started to raise the mast, gotten it up to about 70 degrees, then come to a dead stop because something got snagged somewhere? Or with the mast almost straight up, the forestay is still a couple of inches from the stem because a turnbuckle twisted when the mast was going up? If you were raising the mast without a mechanical advantage you would feel the resistance and stop. If you were using a winch with a high amount of leverage you could put more pressure on the rig until you would feel the same resistance and in that time you could twist a spreader, kink a cable, or whatever.

So be just a little more careful if you are using multiple purchase mechanical advantage systems.

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
C25 SR/FK
Cradled on the hard, 200ft from Lake Erie

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 01/15/2003 : 17:31:27

Don,

Thanks for the good advice on being careful when using mechanical advantage. I was planning on using an old boom vang with an old piece of rope to raise the mast when I finally get a tall rig 25. With my 22 I just muscle the mast up with a line attached to the jib halyard and run through my rope clutch. I know that a 25's tall rig will be quite heavier. I plan on making an A frame also.

I also thought that a small rocket attached to the masthead would raise the mast quite quickly without having to fool with all of the ropes, A frames etc.

Frank Gloss
C22-Wing Magic
C25-- still looking for a wing

Frank

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2984 Posts

Response Posted - 01/15/2003 : 18:39:04

What a great idea Frank <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
R&R N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/15/2003 : 19:07:35

"I also thought that a small rocket attached to the masthead would raise the mast quite quickly without having to fool with all of the ropes, A frames etc." - Frank

Didn't Wyle E. Coyote do this once with less than perfect results? <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
C25 SR/FK
Cradled on the hard, 200ft from Lake Erie

Edited by - on

mqp
1st Mate

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USA
46 Posts

Response Posted - 01/16/2003 : 12:16:55

Just a novice question. What stabilize the mast laterally when it is being raised?

--Minh

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jwilliams
Captain

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USA
357 Posts

Response Posted - 01/16/2003 : 13:48:20

Hey Minh,

Take a look at this webaddress, it describes the lines that manage the side to side control of the mast, called morleys.

This is the system I use for Hey Jude and I do it singlehanded. I have all the lines to raise the mast and control the lateral movement run to the cockpit. Just take your time and do it in calm weather if you are by yourself.

http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/bsmast.html

Jim Williams
Hey Jude C25fk 2958
Half Moon Bay, CA

Edited by - on

Ray Seitz
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
416 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2003 : 19:40:13

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Just a novice question. What stabilize the mast laterally when it is being raised? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
On the newer C250 mast raising system Catalina provided two cables whch attach to the port and stbd side of the mast and then to a loop provided on a port and stbd stanction base. I have forgot to attach these a couple of times ( I think that is Murphy's Law that Don refered to) and quickly remembered when the mast started leaning to one side.

Ray Seitz C 250WB #628 Sea Major

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2003 : 01:52:56

The telescoping mast crutch system, which is what I had on my old Catalina 22, has one problem when used on a Catalina 25: It seems to me that the much higher weight of the C-25 mast will likely put excessive bending loads on both the crutch tubing and the gudgeons (assumes the mast crutch is plugged into the gudgeons, as most store-bought ones are). The telescoping crutches I have seen for sale at West Marine work well for the Catalina 22, but IMHO I don't think they are strong enough for a C-25 mast, especially one with the added weight of a CDI FF-4 furler. If I were to use one on a C-25, I would want to adapt it somehow so that the weight is supported on the ground below the boat, or on the cockpit floor, not on the gudgeons. The attachment to the gudgeons would only provide lateral guide bracing and not support of deadload or bending moments, and I would tie a pair of lines from the top of the crutch to port and starboard lifeline stanchions on the deck several feet forward to counteract the rearward force of the mast's weight. A Catalina 25 mast is heavy enough and long enough to cause severe damage to anything it hits if it gets out of control and falls while being raised or lowered. You don't want to take any chances with it!

Larry Charlot
Catalina 25 #1205 "Quiet Time"
Sacramento, CA

Edited by - lcharlot on 01/18/2003 01:56:23

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