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shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/08/2012 : 03:30:09

My brother and I raced my Capri 25 last weekend. For once we had decent winds. 15-17 gusts to 20.

I was running a full main, and a my 130 beating to windward. (downwind I was running full main and 155).

We made every bit of 6+ downwind, and pushed up to 6 beating back up. Anyway, it was quite gusty, getting between +2 and +5 towards the end of the race.

Some of the puffs pushed us hard over, rail burrying. My reaction is the same it always is as the puffs hit, I head up, and dump the traveler. My nephew (a big guy - 21 yo) was railmeat, legs over to flatten her, but we were 15 degrees before the puff, 20+ after usually.

This is the debate. My brother says, release the mainsheet, I usually dump the traveler. If it stays hard over THEN I dump the mainsheet as well. Usually though on our lake, the puffs are short lived. So I want to dump them if they overpower me, and get it back right away as they taper down. To make matters worse my traveler was binding, and it should not have (brand new track and car).

So which is it.. Do you run with traveler down, and release the mainsheet, or do you run centerline to +4 inches up with the traveler (keeping boom centered), so you can dump the car. I was under the impression that releasing mainsheet, causing the boom to rise too much (EVEN with vang on), caused the heel to get worse, and it was better to depower with traveler then mainsheet if it wasn't enough. That way, getting power back was easy/quick.

We weren't in 20-25 gusting to 30, at which point I'd have reefed main and likely gone to a number 3.

My average speed was 5.5+ Actually at times beating we hit 6.5. Hull speed I am told is 5.6 on my boat. I know I wasn't always pushing the point driving to windward, and that's the drivers fault (me!).

C&C 32 Smith Mountain Lake Virginia

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2012 : 04:21:19

In those winds, I ease the traveler to leeward, watching the knotmeter constantly, and trimming for maximum boat speed. A sizeable bubble generally forms in the mainsail, but I don't care what it looks like, so long as it is fast. I play the traveler up and down with the gusts and lulls. Easing the traveler reduces the pressure on the rudder, and the helmsman will feel it in reduced tiller pressure, and that will reduce drag.

Edited by - on

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2012 : 05:32:04

Reading tuning guides in those winds, I was lead to believe you start at center, or perhaps 1-3 inches to windward. Then dump the traveler to feather the puffs? His argument is to dump the mainsheet, not the traveler. Both of us have sailed for years, he's raced a lot more than me, but neither of us have ever had real race boats.

By the way Steve, just got through reading your mini-book online here on racing, trying to digest it all, but very good tips.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2012 : 06:48:32

In light-to-moderate winds, you bring the boom to the centerline of the boat, but, as the wind speed increases and the boat becomes overpowered (heeling excessively), you progressively ease the traveler to leeward, keeping the boat flat and maximizing boat speed. All the telltales on the leech of the mainsail should be streaming. As the wind increases further, you can ease the vang and mainsheet slightly, which will allow the upper sail to twist off and allow the boat to stand up better.

There are some helpful online articles on the subject, including the following two. There are probably even better articles if you look around some.

http://www.ullmansailssandiego.com/mainsail-trim-techniques-tips.php

http://www.cruisingworld.com/how-to/seamanship/get-the-most-from-your-main

Edited by - on

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2012 : 03:27:45

Ok, looking at this guide, and since I know Elliot/Pattison sails are used a lot by the Wayzatta club...
http://www.wyc.org/capri25/SailingTips/ElliottPattisonTuningGuide.aspx

Because I only had 2 crew and myself, carrying the 155 might have been better albeit harder, since I ran the 130, it made me less overpowered. However, it looks like their recommendation is to sheet the heck out of the main, and drop the traveler. Then dumping the sheet if still overpowered.

Anyone have a max heeling angle for efficiency for the Capri 25? Personally it feels like almost 25 degrees.

Edited by - on

cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 08/12/2012 : 10:44:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by shnool
 Reading tuning guides in those winds, I was lead to believe you start at center, or perhaps 1-3 inches to windward. Then dump the traveler to feather the puffs? His argument is to dump the mainsheet, not the traveler. Both of us have sailed for years, he's raced a lot more than me, but neither of us have ever had real race boats.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I pretty much set up the traveller a little to weather to allow me to let the boom rise and dump air from the top of the sail, but keep the boom near centerline to allow me to point. I only dump the main when totally overpowered since that kills both power and pointing.

My first reaction however, even before easing the traveller is to feather the boat up thru the puffs. Its sometimes called sailing a constant angle of heel. You have to watch your boat speed however, since you can over do it and if your speed drops, you start to make leeway. So as I start feathering someone chants the knotmeter readings and if the speed drops I come back down slightly, and only then do I ease the traveller if I have to. If you are in waves, you also have to drive around the waves to not get your speed killed, so its a busy time. Biggest secret is to start feathering earlier, which takes some practice.

Sounds like you are having fun!

Cheers!

Chuck

Edited by - on

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 08/12/2012 : 17:13:34

Ok, 4th or 5th of my fleet across the start line today.. I was sailing solo in force 4 winds. With the 155 up, the course was a weak W/L, and the winds were varying from beam to broad all the way down. One person launched a chute and managed it, everyone else stayed with a Broad reach deciding to gybe twice or 3 times depending.

I crossed the finish line 4th, which means I held my place well, I finished ahead of 2 S2s, a J/24 and was able to match speed with our fastest boats at most times, including matching up to a J/22. I have to figure out what my corrected time was, they had me at 4th, but I think I'll correct to 5th or 6th overall as they had my rating written down wrong.

The bottom of the boat is a mess, the sails are 30+ yo, but I think I've got my rigging sorted. By the way, I've gone from 8 inches of rake to 12, it seems to have helped.

Edited by - on

cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 08/13/2012 : 10:58:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by shnool
 Ok, 4th or 5th of my fleet across the start line today.. I was sailing solo in force 4 winds.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Congrats!!!! I love solo races!

Chuck

Edited by - on

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 08/13/2012 : 11:45:41

Yeah, only I could place 4th in a solo race, HA! Just kiddn. It wasn't a solo race, I just didn't have any crew ;) Whatever, I must be a lousy skipper cause I do better when I don't have crew (oh no, now they'll read this)...

Honestly though, I took some of the tweaking tips here from the Capri forum, and applied them several hours before the race. The biggest change was the amount of rake I had in the mast. It was at 8" and I moved it to 12" all while noting to get less tension on the after lowers, and add a decent amount on the forward lowers. This allowed the backstay to add a better amount of "bend" when applied. This was crucial for this race as it helped me properly depower the main (twist), and jib (luff tension).

I noted that the boat had a little more weather helm (marginal) while flying the 155, but my point was still spot on, and I could really depower the heck out of the main by cranking on the backstay (which for whatever reason before didn't really work).

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 08/13/2012 : 13:02:22

I don't race and my boat isn't set up for racing. Having said that, I find it easier to dump and recover the main than it is to dump and recover the traveler. Maybe that's your brother's experience as well?

Edited by - on

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

Members Avatar

USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 08/13/2012 : 19:11:50

John, wouldn't surprise me. His immediate experience is with a US 25, and that traveler is at the threshhold of the companionway, which is inconvenient at best single handed. The capri 25 (as with the 22, and J/24/22 and god knows how many others), have it right at the skippers hand.

But again, dropping the traveler some, and dumping the main if it continued to overpower seemed to be the key.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2012 : 14:06:19

John, depending on how the vang is set, dumping the mainsheet does about the same thing as dropping the traveler, i.e., it depowers the mainsail, but dropping the traveler depowers it a little bit, while dumping the mainsheet depowers it completely and instantly. A racer would be likely to use the traveler first, in an effort to keep the sail driving in a strong puff as long as possible, and would only dump the mainsheet when absolutely necessary to keep the boat on her feet. Most cruisers, sailing shorthanded, don't have enough crew to be able to use all the fine adjustments that a racer would use, and, in a strong gust would go straight for the mainsheet to depower the mainsail and keep the boat on its feet.

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