Association Forum - "Releasing the sheets"

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

"Releasing the sheets"

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Member Avatar

2272 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/02/2012 : 16:39:39

Over on [url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=25643"]another thread[/url] there is some lively discussion about procedures to follow if you get into an unexpected heavy blow. Most of the options involve "releasing the sheets" at some point. However, with the modified B&R rig of the C250 this presents a dilemma for the mainsheet. If you let the boom out too far, it could create some very strong forward pressure against the spreader and upper shroud. But without releasing the sheet enough, one could encounter severe heel which, while not sinking the boat, could cause a MOB situation.

What are the considerations for a situation such as this, specific to the C250 and other boats with swept back spreaders?

Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
PO of Take Five, 1998 Catalina 250WK #348 (relocated to Baltimore's Inner Harbor)
New owner of 2001 Catalina 34MkII #1535 Breakin' Away (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

Edited by - TakeFive on 09/03/2012 06:11:44

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2012 : 07:59:55

Off-hand, I'm thinking you could position a stopper knot (figure-8) on the mainsheet to prevent the boom from hitting the shroud when the sheet is released (traveler down). Then all you're worried about is the pressure of the sail. Since I haven't heard of C-250 masts coming down, and Catalina probably took this into account in engineering the spreaders, I'm going to say "Go sailing." Your boom won't be restricted that much (or maybe any) more than on the non-swept-back C-25 rig with its aft lower shrouds. If you're hit from the stern quarter, you'll probably round up and luff by the time the wind is on the beam.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 09/03/2012 08:05:31

mowrangler
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
66 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2012 : 08:51:04

In my case, I am almost certain the boom got all the way out to the shroud and it wasn't enough, which is why I kept the 45+ degree heel even after letting the sails loose. However, the mains'l didn't violently slam against the shroud. I'm going out to the lake in a little while to make sure there that I don't see any damage I missed last Thursday.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2012 : 09:40:58

I agree with Dave. I wouldn't assume that the boat has a design flaw. I would act on the assumption that it can withstand any maneuver that I might have to perform with it in the course of sailing, and, if I need to gybe or let the boom out suddenly, I'd do it without the slightest hesitation. By now, lots of C250s have logged lots of hours on the water, and have been put through all sorts of hard maneuvers by their owners, sometimes on purpose and sometimes by accident, and I'm fairly sure we would have heard about dismastings on this forum, if they were a frequent occurrence.

B&R rigs, without a backstay, have been proven at sea, and the Freedom line of sailboats, which are completely unstayed, have also been proven at sea. I wouldn't worry about it.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 09/03/2012 09:50:58

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2012 : 15:21:51

I often let the sheet out in a blow and have not had a problem with impact of the boom on the shrouds although typically it doesn't take that much of a release to depower the sail. Another technique is to turn into the wind. Of course, if the boat continue to heel it will turn into the wind all by itself.

If it looks as though there could be heavy winds we opt to reef and furl prior to the action. My experience is that C250 handling problems occur when there is too much sail up. I am pleasantly surprised how we move along briskly under reduced sail.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

Members Avatar

USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2012 : 15:38:31

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 I often let the sheet out in a blow and have not had a problem with impact of the boom on the shrouds although typically it doesn't take that much of a release to depower the sail. Another technique is to turn into the wind. Of course, if the boat continue to heel it will turn into the wind all by itself.

If it looks as though there could be heavy winds we opt to reef and furl prior to the action. My experience is that C250 handling problems occur when there is too much sail up. I am pleasantly surprised how we move along briskly under reduced sail.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Same here, since we have a tall rig, I tend to play the main sheet like I'm in a dinghy if the wind has piped up. We'll also reef before we even head out if it looks like it's going to get above about 8 knots or so. That's about Rita's comfort threshold with heeling & a full set of sails. Our last sail we didn't even put the jib up, just a reefed mainsail, which was enough to keep us going (most of the time) at around 4 - 4-1/2 knots, and that was in roughly 10 kts of wind or so.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2012 : 15:54:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 I often let the sheet out in a blow and have not had a problem with impact of the boom on the shrouds although typically it doesn't take that much of a release to depower the sail. Another technique is to turn into the wind. Of course, if the boat continue to heel it will turn into the wind all by itself.

If it looks as though there could be heavy winds we opt to reef and furl prior to the action. My experience is that C250 handling problems occur when there is too much sail up. I am pleasantly surprised how we move along briskly under reduced sail.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Same here, since we have a tall rig, I tend to play the main sheet like I'm in a dinghy if the wind has piped up. We'll also reef before we even head out if it looks like it's going to get above about 8 knots or so. That's about Rita's comfort threshold with heeling & a full set of sails. Our last sail we didn't even put the jib up, just a reefed mainsail, which was enough to keep us going (most of the time) at around 4 - 4-1/2 knots, and that was in roughly 10 kts of wind or so.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Right David. I think the main lesson I have learned about this boat is that when the wind pipes up she handles better, and sails faster, with reduced sail. We were all over the lake yesterday moving just as fast as the other boats our size with a reef in and the jib furled in well ahead of the shrouds. Sail management, including how much sail to have up, is part of the sport. Simply putting up all the canvas all the time is not a good strategy.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2272 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2012 : 19:21:57

We aren't hesitant to spill air in a heavy puff, though typically we do it with only the slightest loosening of the main sheet. Also, we do it much less since we realized that we can hit hull speed in about 10 kts of wind with a single reef. In other words, we reef early and often.

My inquiry about releasing the sheets came from my one and only experience in an unexpected heavy blow, which I described here a couple of years ago. The forecast was about 8 kt of wind, with no gusts forecast. While we were running DDW with the boom to starboard, there was a sudden gust off the port stern quarter that heeled the boat severely. I briefly considered turning to starboard to continue running, but was afraid that if the wind direction shifted back to where it had been, we would have a sudden jibe. So I immediately turned to port to head up into the wind. This momentarily heeled the boat even more severely, even though I loosened the sheets as much as I was comfortable with.

I agree that once you get the boat to the point where the wind is coming directly from the side, releasing the sheets will not harm the rig, because by the time the boom swings out, the boat will have already turned enough into the wind that the boom will not swing much further forward. It's just the possibility of releasing the sheets with the wind still behind you that worried me, since in that case the boom might swing forward to a point where it contacts the shrouds and/or the sail presses hard on the spreader.

I also agree that if rig damage was a significant risk in this situation, we would have probably heard about it here.

Back to my own experience a couple years ago, after the fact I discovered that a cloudless front had apparently come through, and the Philadelphia Airport wind sensors recorded a gust of close to 35 mph. The flogging of my genoa caused it to rip, though inspection of the sail afterwards revealed that the cloth was pretty much shot and would have ripped pretty soon anyway. We were hit with two separate gusts, and after the second time we just dropped the sails and motored back to the marina. I remember seeing the inclinometer showing 20 degrees of heel with bare poles!

Edited by - TakeFive on 09/03/2012 19:23:14

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2012 : 19:58:09

I sail quite a bit on the small boats at "Center for Wooden Boats" in Seattle, and many of their boats have a stopper just before the boom would hit the stays. Their main boats (and the ones that we raced this summer on Friday nights) are Blanchard Juniors with a B&R-style fractional rig (3 stays, the aft ones are swept back). I'm sure it has a different name than B&R since those boats were designed well over 50 years ago.

The knot always bugs me in my hand so I normally remove it, but it is a useful safety and teaching feature. They have it mostly to keep the shrouds from marking up the boom on these classic boats.

The Freedom boats have an unstayed mast, but the mast on a Freedom 28 is easily 3x the diameter of the mast on a Catalina 27 (the boats are about the same displacement). It is also keel stepped, and I'm sure that the deck of the boat is giving it some good support. I just looked at a Freedom 28 (among other boats) in my quest for a larger sailboat this last weekend. I'm not ready to go cat-sloop (and I couldn't stand up inside, one of my requirements), but it was an intriguing boat.

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.