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Wind gusts

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Voyager
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Initially Posted - 09/15/2012 : 06:39:36

Now that we're getting into fall sailing, we begin to see a familiar pattern: high pressure followed by cold fronts that may or may not have accompanying rain. Following the front, the wind switches from SW to NW with strong gusty winds. They usually start out mild (5-10) then build to 10-15 with gusts to 25. Seems like several hours after the frontal passage is when you get the strongest winds.
Depending on whether you're reefed and if you are confident in your sailing in these conditions, it's either a nightmare or exhilarating or both!
You can be tooling along at hull speed on a reach with 15s in complete control, then along comes a gust and you feel like you're going over or it turns you up. The blow lasts for awhile then you're back at it to repeat again.
And I notice that apparent wind direction seems to shift in gusts. Normally, the wind will blow 315, then as it picks up, will shift up to 345 or more. When the gust begins to subside, the wind direction will turn back to 315.
You can play this if you're reaching on a port tack. If you're sailing close enough in the lulls and you get headed by a gust, it may just cause you to pinch and spill wind.
Of course on a starboard tack the gust hits your sails more squarely and will produce more heel. Like I said - fun and unpredictable - but that's why we sail.
But does anybody know what creates gusts? And further why they veer? And why do they last a minute or two, then subside?
I know that differences in air pressure (high vs low) and coriolis effects cause basic wind patterns, but you'd expect constant wind speeds in all those cases. In thunderstorms too, with turbulence, rising and descending and sometimes twisting air, I can see outflow gusts.
But following a frontal passage, I don't understand why the NW winds always tend to gusts. And sometimes the gusts are so bad the Weather Service calls for small craft advisories.
Any other weather nerds out there who know what's going on here? I'd love to understand it better.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - on

GaryB
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Response Posted - 09/15/2012 : 11:59:06

Per Answers by Ask.com:

Gusts(sudden increase in wind speed) and lulls(sudden decrease in wind speed) in air flow are caused by turbulence in the atmosphere.
The atmosphere becomes turbulent when there is mechanical obstruction to the flow of air or when there is marked convection in the atmosphere.The former is called mechanical turbulence and the latter is called the thermal turbulence.
In mechanical turbulence,rotating parcels of air called eddies are formed in the vicinity of the ground.The eddies are potent agents in vertical mixing of air layers and it is the movement of these eddies which causes the lulls and the gusts in the atmosphere.
In thermal turbulence,air layers when they are subjected to intense solar heating close to the ground ,ascend due to buoyancy and convectional currents are set up.If these currents are sufficiently strong ,turbulent fluctuations are produced which appear as gusts and lulls in the horizontal wind particularly in the afternoons of hot summer days.

Edited by - GaryB on 09/16/2012 07:10:38

Derek Crawford
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Response Posted - 09/15/2012 : 20:26:59

And remember, if the wind speed doubles, the force on the sails quadruples!

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DaveR
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Response Posted - 09/16/2012 : 08:07:28

Great explanation Gary! I'm no meteorologist but think the rotation of the earth along with heating air at the ground that wants to ascend and cold air up high that want to descend in part cause these eddies and interactions. Of course humidity and the strength of sunlight come in to play as well.

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GaryB
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Response Posted - 09/16/2012 : 08:56:49

I can't take credit, as it mentions at the top of my post, it came from Answers by Ask.com but it is a good explanation.

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piseas
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Response Posted - 09/16/2012 : 09:12:35

I have looked at several of my weather reports services but don't see any mention of either type of turbulence. Does anyone know who reports this?
Steve A

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 09/16/2012 : 09:20:35

I have long observed that off-shore breezes in almost any weather conditions are more gusty and subject to shifts than on-shore (sea) breezes. I always assumed it was due to turbulence caused by the land--particularly in coastal regions that are hilly and tree-covered (like CT). The wind seems to arrive like waves on a beach--somewhat regularly and somewhat irregularly, but not steadily, probably from rolling and swirling over the Berkshires in NY and the hills of CT.

That's why on a day like yesterday (off-shore 15-20 gusting to 25), we used to leave the cover on the main, roll out the 135, and relax at a comfortable 4.5-5.5 knots, with remarkably little drama. Passage would cruise nicely in the "lulls", accelerate smartly in the gusts, but barely reach 15 degrees (as best as I can remember). For those looking for excitement or trying to win a race, of course, I wouldn't recommend this tactic.

Another phenomenon I have witnessed many times is the sudden reversal of a sea-breeze as dusk arrives--it's as if the land has been "inhaling" all day long (from convection), and then suddenly and sometimes rather strongly "exhales" as the sun stops warming the land. I've been hit by this on more than a few summer evenings returning to port. Soon thereafter, all goes calm. Anybody else felt this?

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 09/16/2012 09:29:41

Voyager
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Response Posted - 09/16/2012 : 15:21:41

Today was another gusty day here in CT. The forecast was for steady NWerlies at 5-10 then veering to west throughout the day. Sounded quite dull actually. But the day started chilly, around 49 degrees.
Things started out that way but as the sun warmed things up, by midmorning the steady breeze was about 10+ but gusts started building quickly. I had main and jib full on and was reaching on 60 degrees to apparent wind at a 10 degree heel doing about 3.8 kts.
Then allofasudden the boat went way over and I instinctively released the main and headed up to windward.
As the day warmed the gusts increased. I reefed. Soon steady breezes were 12-15 with gusts to 20 (according to my handheld anemometer).
I'd been reaching to windward for an hour and a half, so I decided to gybe and sail back downwind. I dropped the main and just rode along with the winds with the jib.
I counted 25 other sailboats within sight. Fall sailing at it's best!
With the cold air in the upper part of the atmosphere and the rising warm, air cumulus clouds began to build. The turbulence created by the natural imbalance of cold over warm is what must have caused the gusts.
I assume things will stay that way until dusk when the heating subsides. Tomorrow Monday :-( winds are due to switch to SW and things will warm up a bit.

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Voyager
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Response Posted - 09/16/2012 : 15:29:56

I've seen the seabreeze do that Dave. You get a nice breeze until a few hours before sunset, then it fades. Sometimes the "background" breeze (that had been opposing but was overpowered by the seabreeze) will pipe up once the seabreeze ends.

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 09/16/2012 : 19:52:27

We had similar winds (13 mph continuous with gusts to 24) yesterday as we sailed up to Philly. Those kinds of gusts used to really bother us, but we've learned to manage very well. We were averaging 6-7 kt SOG (with the current allowing us to exceed hull speed), though we had to motor the last couple of miles because we were right into the teeth of the wind and too much traffic in the city to tack.

We rented a slip up on the Penns Landing waterfront, and stayed overnight with our dog. She's not a boat dog - normally we leave her home alone for the day or with our mature kids overnight, but the house was empty last night so we brought her with us. She did great on the boat, and was much calmer than we expected. (She's a toy poodle, typically very high strung.)
<center>

</center>

The temp was predicted to go down to 52 overnight, but only reached 62, and we awoke to a dry boat (no dew) with the cabin at a comfortable 66. No wind this morning, and we couldn't wait because we wanted to ride the tidal current, so we motored the whole way home. But overall it was a great trip. These days are golden for sailing!

I'll post video when I have it ready.

Edited by - TakeFive on 09/16/2012 20:06:41

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 09/16/2012 : 20:10:07

Rick--any breed with poodle in it is likely to surprise you with their adaptability and intelligence! Not that there're are others (like labs), but...

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Steve Milby
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Response Posted - 09/17/2012 : 05:38:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 ...I notice that apparent wind direction seems to shift in gusts. Normally, the wind will blow 315, then as it picks up, will shift up to 345 or more. When the gust begins to subside, the wind direction will turn back to 315.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I've been trying to figure that out for a long time, and I think what is happening is that, in a gust or lull, the apparent wind is shifting, not the true wind. The problem is that, if you tack on a short-lived lull that looks like a header, then, when the gust comes back, and you are on the other tack, the gust will be heading you away from the mark. Thus, the trick is to figure out which gusts or lulls are persistent and which ones are short-lived. The method I have always used, and which has been fairly reliable, is to resist tacking immediately on a header. I continue sailing into the header for about 20 seconds, and, if it persists that long, then the likelihood is that it will continue long enough to make it worth tacking.

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DaveR
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Response Posted - 09/17/2012 : 08:06:22

We see this "inhaling and exhaling" daily here in FL. During the day the land heats the air close to the ground and it rises. The vacuum that's trying to be created underneath sucks the cooler air in off the ocean and that as well as temperature differential causes the wind/convection. Land contours can affect the wind to a degree as well. Add moisture and you've got the violent storms we get here in the afternoon during the summer. And of course Land that's 100+ degrees next too 80 degree water creates eddies and unusual shifts and gusts close to shore. As the day turns to night the temps between the land and water begin to even out and turbulent conditions lessen. Finally the water is warmer than the land and makes offshore cloudiness (if there's enough moisture present) for killer sunsets.

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DaveR
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Response Posted - 09/17/2012 : 08:39:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> I've been trying to figure that out for a long time, and I think what is happening is that, in a gust or lull, the apparent wind is shifting, not the true wind. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I've been running this through my brain (could be dangerous) and it would seem to me that the stronger the wind/gust the more it would negate apparent wind. Apparent wind is caused by the forward movement of the boat versus true wind, right?

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 09/17/2012 : 09:22:01

To put it another way, apparent wind is a simple geometric relationship between the true wind direction and speed, and the boat's direction and speed. If you are beating into a light breeze, your boat speed moves the apparent wind direction toward your bow. As the wind increases, its true direction becomes a larger a factor in the equation and the apparent direction moves toward the beam. Holding course, this will make the gust feel stronger against the sail, and is an invitation to head up and gain some windward progress until the gust subsides, at which time the apparent wind will shift back toward the bow, potentially heading you until you fall off again.

(As a $+!nkp*++er now, my apparent wind is usually pretty close to directly on the bow.

)

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 09/17/2012 09:35:15

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 09/17/2012 : 11:45:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 To put it another way, apparent wind is a simple geometric relationship between the true wind direction and speed, and the boat's direction and speed. If you are beating into a light breeze, your boat speed moves the apparent wind direction toward your bow. As the wind increases, its true direction becomes a larger a factor in the equation and the apparent direction moves toward the beam. Holding course, this will make the gust feel stronger against the sail, and is an invitation to head up and gain some windward progress until the gust subsides, at which time the apparent wind will shift back toward the bow, potentially heading you until you fall off again.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
On many occasions I've tried to rationalize the apparent fact that gusts come from the beam, and always ended up with this same explanation. And, like you suggest, I use it as an opportunity to gain some additional headway into the wind, knowing that when the wind dies down I can convert that to added speed by going on a broader reach. I've always thought that was the origin of the saying, "Head up in the puffs, and down in the lulls."

Edited by - TakeFive on 09/17/2012 11:45:36

DaveR
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Response Posted - 09/17/2012 : 12:11:39

[url="http://johnellsworth.com/writing/nautical/understand_appwind/understand_appwind.html"]Here's a good article[/url]

It's funny, they don't state it this way but what I suspected is true. The article says "A decrease in the true-wind velocity shifts apparent wind forward, with boatspeed and course constant; an increase usually shifts it aft (Fig. 3). If the true wind decreases, the apparent wind moves forward and decreases."

But if you'll notice The wind is from the starboard stern quarter, so the stronger the wind the more it negates apparent wind and the closer it comes to true wind and that will be true no matter where the wind comes from. Really a simple, very logical wind/motion relationship.

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Steve Milby
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Response Posted - 09/17/2012 : 13:53:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by TakeFive
 On many occasions I've tried to rationalize the apparent fact that gusts come from the beam, and always ended up with this same explanation. And, like you suggest, I use it as an opportunity to gain some additional headway into the wind, knowing that when the wind dies down I can convert that to added speed by going on a broader reach. I've always thought that was the origin of the saying, "Head up in the puffs, and down in the lulls."
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The reason underlying the advice to "head up in the puffs and down in the lulls" is slightly different, depending on whether you are sailing to windward or downwind. When sailing to a windward mark or objective, the shortest distance that the boat is capable of sailing is at its closehauled angle to the wind (approximately 45 deg. for most boats). As the boat bears off from that angle, it's speed increases up to a beam reach, at which point it's speed begins to drop off. When the wind becomes very light, boat speed to windward can drop to almost zero, so, in that case, you should bear off to increase boat speed. By keeping the boat moving in light air, instead of letting it stop or lose speed dramatically, you will continue making some headway toward the windward mark, although not as fast.

When sailing downwind, the rationale is similar, but still different. If the objective or mark is dead downwind of you, the shortest distance to that mark is obviously dead downwind. In a really strong wind, the fastest way to get there in a strong wind is by sailing nearly dead down wind, even though dead downwind is the slowest point of sail. As the windspeed drops, as in a lull, boat speed drops precipitously, but a boat sailing downwind can increase its speed by coming up to a broad reach. Thus, by "tacking downwind" (I don't know why it's often called "tacking", because when you're doing it downwind, you're actually gybing) you will sail a longer distance to reach your objective downwind, but you'll get there in a shorter amount of time.

Think about it this way, because this is a situation in which you can often make a huge gain. If you're sailing with white sails (non-spinn) on a slow broad reach downwind, and there is a strong gust, your speed will only increase slightly if you maintain your broad reaching course. But, if you bear off downwind, and sail wing and wing, you will get farther downwind faster than if you maintain that broad reaching course. If the gust subsides, then when you turn and begin reaching toward the next objective or mark, you will be sailing at a much hotter angle (for example, a beam reach) and thus much faster speed toward the mark than the boat that continued sailing on a slow broad reach throughout the puff. If the gust doesn't subside when it is time for you to turn and head for the mark, you will still be sailing at a much hotter angle toward the mark, while your opponent is still sailing on a much slower broad reach. You'll sail much farther to get there, but your speed will be so much faster that you can overtake and pass him and round the mark well ahead of him.

To summarize, it might seem ridiculously obvious, but the objective on the downwind leg is get downwind in as short a time as possible. In a gust, you'll get there faster by bearing off downwind, and in a lull, you'll get there faster by broad reaching.

Likewise, the objective on the windward leg is to get upwind in as short a time as possible. In a gust, you'll get there faster by sailing as close to the wind as possible, but in a lull, you'll get there faster by bearing off the wind slightly, to maximize boat speed. Moreover, by footing off slightly, you increase boat speed, and as boat speed increases, the keel generates more lift and the principle that Dave described comes into play. The combination of all these factors maximizes boat speed and minimizes the distance that must be sailed to reach the windward objective or mark.

Edited by - on

DaveR
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Response Posted - 09/18/2012 : 09:33:44

Definitely food for thought Steve. I usually opt for the shortest distance but next time I'm in the position and it's a light wind day I'm going to do as you advise on the downwind leg! Maybe we can shorten the distance between "Island Time" (Tom Curran's boat) and that No. 1 hull of "Confetti" (Chuck Shaw's boat)! Now, is there a light wind downwind situation where you'd veer off a bit rather than raise the shute, or is it always best to fly it if you have it?

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 09/18/2012 : 09:49:40

Am I correct in saying that you could use a chartplotter set an upwind/downwind waypoint to navigate to, and then monitor your VMG to find the optimum heading under different wind conditions? Having done this a few times, I know that it's rarely that straightforward since the VMG can fluctuate randomly, but in certain conditions it could provide valuable feedback that is one of several things to consider when trimming your sails and seating a heading.

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Steve Milby
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Response Posted - 09/18/2012 : 10:23:43

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DaveR
 Definitely food for thought Steve. I usually opt for the shortest distance but next time I'm in the position and it's a light wind day I'm going to do as you advise on the downwind leg! Maybe we can shorten the distance between "Island Time" (Tom Curran's boat) and that No. 1 hull of "Confetti" (Chuck Shaw's boat)! Now, is there a light wind downwind situation where you'd veer off a bit rather than raise the shute, or is it always best to fly it if you have it?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I can only speak from my experience. I raced my C25 for 23 years with white sails, and competed regularly against spinnaker boats at the club level, as well as in 6 national regattas, and only felt disadvantaged by it in one national regatta (1984), when the triangular race course was skewed with the longest spinnaker run they could create, to favor the local racers, all of whom flew spinnakers.

In the previous year (1983), I had beaten them all badly in four out of five races with my white sails, and only lost the national championship after the grommet ripped out of the head of my genoa two legs before the finish of the last race, and I fell from 2nd place at that time to next-to-last place in that race. That put me in second place in the tall rig division and 3rd place overall in 1983. I have never said it on the forum before, but I felt it a bit unfair of the local club to set such long spinnaker runs, and in 1985, when the National Regatta was held at my home lake, we set our normal race courses the first day, and, when the past champion asked the RC to set longer spinnaker runs for the second day, I didn't complain when the RC set the longest spinnaker runs that our lake would accommodate.

So, the best answer I can give is, on a triangular race course, you can beat spinnaker boats with white sails. On a windward/leeward course it's much more difficult, because the downwind leg counts for a much larger percentage of the entire race course, but it can still be done. It's fairly easy to beat them in strong winds, especially if the sponsoring organization doesn't limit the length of your whisker pole. If you are allowed to spread your genoa to its maximum breadth with a long whisker pole, you can expose a lot of sail area sailing wing and wing. On a short race course, the foredeck crew must be very skilled at hoisting and taking down the spinnaker. If they make a small mistake, it will cost them whatever advantage they should have gained by using the spinnaker, especially if they have to take a handicap for using the spinnaker. (Usually, in our Nationals, all boats sail with one handicap for their type of boat (e.g. tall rig, std. rig, etc.), regardless of whether they opt to use a spinnaker.

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 09/18/2012 : 10:53:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by TakeFive
 Am I correct in saying that you could use a chartplotter set an upwind/downwind waypoint to navigate to, and then monitor your VMG to find the optimum heading under different wind conditions? Having done this a few times, I know that it's rarely that straightforward since the VMG can fluctuate randomly, but in certain conditions it could provide valuable feedback that is one of several things to consider when trimming your sails and seating a heading.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">VMG is tricky... As you get closer to the waypoint you're using to measure VMG, and as you go out toward your layline, the VMG becomes deceptively low (even approaching zero). You want a measurement of your progress in a direction--not simply to a point whose angle from you skews the measurement from second to second.

I've read that the better approach is to set the point from which you're measuring VMG several miles beyond your actual objective, on the same line, so the geometry doesn't change much as you get closer to the real objective and as you traverse between tacks. How many miles? The more, the better--to substantially reduce the variation of the angles to that point as you tack back and forth. I'm suspicious this would generally require a second GPS, so one GPS can navigate to the real waypoint, while the other measures VMG to a point perhaps five miles inland. (I could also imagine this being an automatic function in a GPS--stretching the line to measure VMG--but I haven't heard of it.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 09/18/2012 10:56:34

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 09/20/2012 : 18:02:28

These are very good points, and I can see why you essentially want to tack along a line that goes to a point an infinite distance away (or as close to infinity as a chartplotter can accommodate).

Another consideration is the symmetry of your tacks. Unless your line points directly into the wind or directly downwind, the asymmetry of your tacks will cause VMG to vary greatly on each tack (perhaps going negative on some tacks) unless your chartplotter does some kind of time averaging.

Your suggestion of using two GPS's is and interesting one, and those who use computer-based chartplotters can usually do this with a little computer trickery. I always run two instances of OpenCPN side-by-side, one zoomed in to see local details, and another zoomed out to see AIS targets. This eliminates the need to manipulate the zoom on the program while I sail. I could easily set one for an actual waypoint, and the other for a waypoint a long distance away. [url="http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af44/RhythmDoctor/Sailboat%202011/OpenCPNDualView.jpg"]These examples do not show that[/url] - VMG only shows up when I activate a route or waypoint.

Edited by - TakeFive on 09/21/2012 05:21:51

Steve Milby
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Response Posted - 09/21/2012 : 06:17:10

I'm not sure I completely answered Dave R's last question. If I had a spinnaker and a crew that was skilled in flying it, I would probably fly it whenever I could, because I believe a spinnaker is inherently faster downwind than white sails. But, I have beaten spinnaker boats often enough to know that it can be done, especially in strong winds and/or in short races.

Flying a spinnaker is complicated, and mistakes are commonplace, even among very experienced racers.

If the winds are strong enough to push a boat with a spinnaker to hull speed, they will probably also push a boat with white sails to hull speed. Moreover, a boat with white sails can be gybed downwind much more quickly and easily than a spinnaker boat, and that means you can gybe back and forth quickly, to take maximum advantage of wind shifts and lifts and headers. In widely shifting winds, you can make huge gains by "tacking" downwind on shifts (gybing back and forth), and I have seen very few spinnaker boats that can do the same, because of the complexity involved in gybing a spinnaker, and the amount of time it takes to prepare for it and to do it.

My point is, if you sail with white sails, don't assume you are going to be beaten by spinnaker boats. Make the most of what you have. Use your ingenuity and always look for advantages that you have that the spinnaker boat doesn't have, and then use those advantages as often as you can.

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.