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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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What boat is this?

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/01/2012 : 20:43:59

From time to time I think about downsizing to a smaller boat. While eating dockside in Portland we spotted this nice looking craft. The dock was not open to the public so I took this photo with my phone. Sorry for the blurriness from enlarging it. Any idea what this is?

We cannot direct the winds but we can adjust our sails.

Edited by - on

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2012 : 03:12:48

Looks like an old seaward fox 20...
http://www.sailingtexas.com/sseaward20a.html
Probably a freedom rig version (sans stays). Hake yachts make some really fine boats, with classy lines. Their new models are MIGHTY interesting! I really like the seaward 26, it looks like a classy, very nicely designed trailerable. The roll keels seem pretty sweet.
http://www.seawardyachts.com/

I realize after writing this, I sound like a commercial. I love my Capri. In fact, logically, if I were to go the cruiser route, I'd likely go Capri 26, or Catalina 250. But the Hake yachts remind me of all things classy in boat design. Several cruiser builders are doing that now, including WD Shock with their "harbor" line, as well as Alerion sailboats.

Edited by - shnool on 10/02/2012 03:15:32

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2012 : 04:05:03

I don't know what make it is, but it's definitely a cat boat, i.e., a boat with a single mast and no jib, with the mast set far forward. It doesn't look like any Freedom that I know of.

It's hard to discern the boat's size from the photo, but it looks very similar to a "Sun Cat," built by Com Pac Yachts. The hull and coach roof have the same general shape, it has a similar single window, the mast is set in about the same place, and it is driven by a big mainsail.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 10/02/2012 04:05:54

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2012 : 05:19:50

I think given the nature of the picture, either could be correct Steve, but I submit that the fox was also available as a cat rig.
http://bbs.trailersailor.com/forums/seaward/index.cgi/noframes/read/58169

Forgot, com-pact yachts, also a very classy boat line.

Edited by - shnool on 10/02/2012 05:21:16

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2012 : 05:48:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by shnool
 I think given the nature of the picture, either could be correct Steve, but I submit that the fox was also available as a cat rig.
http://bbs.trailersailor.com/forums/seaward/index.cgi/noframes/read/58169

Forgot, com-pact yachts, also a very classy boat line.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Yeah, the last photo you furnished looks very close. The photo is fuzzy, but the Com Pac just looks too small. The Seaward looks about right, in size and otherwise. There might be other "clones," but for now I'd bet my money on the Seaward.

Edited by - on

Ape-X
Admiral

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USA
662 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2012 : 06:30:30

rub rail, sheer lines say Seaward....

Edited by - Ape-X on 10/02/2012 06:32:00

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2012 : 06:51:12

The sheer stripe is classic Seaward (Hake).

Edited by - on

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2012 : 07:55:20

Either way, I think we're all saying, we like your thinking. Cat boats are cool... and if you are also lucky enough to be a member of our sail club, they are also a helluva racing boat. Note 4th place overall: http://www.paupacksailingclub.com/2012_Race_Results/2012_race_results.html
You got it, Hershoff... God bless him, most of our races were broad to beam reaches, and nearly no wind... he mopped up, all while having wine and cheese and his feet up. With his corrected rating, he corrected over everyone when he was ahead of anyone. There were several hard core racers none-to happy about that. Myself, I think it's a riot!

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2012 : 09:09:37

The Mystic Seaport has a Beetle Cat race series using their own fleet--these are 12' wooden, gaff-rigged boats in which you sit on the bottom. (You usually go home with a wet spot.) A guy I know wins just about every race, no matter which boat he sails, and always takes the series trophy, which might just be a Seaport coffee mug... So it's clearly a true test of skills, even if it's only one sail and a sheet. (And weren't we talking recently about making tacks easier?

)

The Beetle Cat actually moves very nicely through the water--I can sail one whenever I want, but my old joints get tired of crawling around in it, especially with somebody else on board. However, I'm interested in "partnering" with some boatless neighbor in my condo complex on a slightly larger catboat (my money, his/her slip), gaff-rigged so it can motor under a fixed bridge nearby. The Marconi-rigged Com-Pacs and Seawards might not work.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2012 : 09:18:19

John (shnool)--I don't get it. You have a "One Design" fleet made up of five different designs, only one of which has multiple entries, and then you handicap them all against each other...

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shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2012 : 10:49:46

The "One Design" fleet, isn't. It's basically the serious racers whose boats are classified as "One Design."
Then they have the "race fleet" which are supposed to lump serious racers with "slower boats" against one another.
Then the "cruisers" which are supposed to be the not so serious, slower boat owners, and new/inexperienced racers.
They give trophies for each fleet, then an overall points winner with 2 toss-outs (because just getting everyone to every race is a challenge).

They stagger start it, so that cruise goes first, then race, then OD... 10 minutes apart. It actually works out pretty well. The OD fleet usually passes the other 2 in the first leg, but don't discount those race guys, they are pretty good, even if their boats are slower. But it allows them to single out other boats for boat on boat races.

Our lake is a real challenge to sail, and I commend anyone who can keep moving on it at times. Between 2 mountains, and the main direction of the lake dictates constant shifts in most prevailing winds... it's not uncommon to suffer 180 degree wind shifts within several hundred feet, even with higher winds (making serious broaching a possibility at times for the unwatching skipper/crew).

But yes the club is quite different, but it works, and there's a great deal of good sailors amongst them, actually 2 of them teach at our local ASA school, still others moonlight as riggers for the local marinas. I am the "new guy" with them. My goal is to keep my Capri as far up in the list of "fast boats" as I can (tall order given my handicap is higher than theirs). Oh, and I'm shocked not to see/hear any of my club members on this board, as we have a pretty decent Cat 25 group (6-8 of them I think in the club, but they don't all race), they themselves could be a fleet if so inclined.

Edited by - shnool on 10/02/2012 10:50:51

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2012 : 11:47:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by shnool
 ...Our lake is a real challenge to sail, and I commend anyone who can keep moving on it at times. Between 2 mountains, and the main direction of the lake dictates constant shifts in most prevailing winds... it's not uncommon to suffer 180 degree wind shifts within several hundred feet, even with higher winds (making serious broaching a possibility at times for the unwatching skipper/crew)...we have a pretty decent Cat 25 group (6-8 of them I think in the club, but they don't all race)...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
What lake? I don't remember you mentioning it before.

Edited by - on

Jack Schafer
Navigator

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USA
112 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2012 : 14:30:38

looks like it could be a "nonsuch". there is one on our lake, an incredible looking and easy to sail. Boom looks like a yoke on a wind surfer.

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shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2012 : 16:58:56

Wally! it's in your sig!

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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3704 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2012 : 17:36:36

Thanks all! I think it is a Hake Seaward Fox with cat rig. Looks like a cat rig could be fun and easier to handle as well.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2012 : 18:29:10

John--don't get me wrong--anything that's fun for the participants is great! I just found it amusing that the fleet name was "One Design", when one-design racing is... well, you know.

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shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2012 : 03:16:19

No question the name of the fleet is most assuredly a misnomer... Seeing as I've just been a member for 2 years at our club I've not had a whole lot of influence on these things. Plus we probably have just enough S2 7.9s to actually have a one-design race (we have I think 5 or 6, so that confuses more, as 4-5 S2s race in that fleet each time, with only 8-9 boats total). We only have about 4 J/24s (and are lucky to see 2 in the fleet). I am the only Capri 25... although, people NOW know what they are now!

Now back to the topic at hand... I've seen those seaward fox's up close and personal, and have to say, they are very shiply little boats. I wish I could say I've sailed one. The cruiser in me likes the cat rig for ease of use as well. I dunno why perhaps simplicity and classy lines, but the seawards always intrigued me. Funny as I tend towards go-fast boats.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2012 : 05:34:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by shnool
 ...the seawards always intrigued me. Funny as I tend towards go-fast boats.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">They're well-designed and well-built for their purposes... Most recently, I tended toward 33 knots (plus 2' draft and 10' bridge clearance).

Edited by - on

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2012 : 05:40:17

Maybe I should clarify, go fast but with sails! HA! Stinkpotter indeed! Although I'd wager my 2 stroke 2.5 hp is more of a polluter than most V6 4 strokes... sorry yet another diversion.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2012 : 06:58:15

Here is the Seaward Fox up close:

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