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Swing Keel Bilge question

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johnmcb
Deckhand

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USA
17 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/29/2012 : 19:04:52

PO had bilge pump under ladder, however I get a fair amount of water in the lowest part of bilge accessed only by two rectangular wood covers close to the SK trunk. I can fit a Whale low profile pump there but I don't see where I can run the discharge hose. The rectangular cabin deck appears to be fiber glassed to the hull all the way around. It looks like I could drill a hole from under the port settee through a vertical bulkhead to gain access to this area of the bilge, however, I am reluctant to start drilling holes without knowing for sure where it will lead. Anyone out there done this before? My swing keel has two settees one on each side running bow to stern

macsailor

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BCG-Woodbury
Mainsheet Editor

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USA
396 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2012 : 19:47:14

Macsailor -

My PO installed a Rule bilge pump in that area but I don't recall where the discharge line runs. I know it exits the transom for sure, when I get a chance later this week I'll take a look and let you know. Of course, that will depend on whether the boat survives Sandy.

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johnmcb
Deckhand

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USA
17 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2012 : 16:52:32

I have read the thread about discharge through manual pump. Not withstanding all the pros and cons. I think this works and doesn't require drilling additional hole in transom. I am just not sure about drilling through settee bulkhead to bilge. I appreciate the second opinion and wish you luck with Sandy

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Tim M
1st Mate

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60 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2012 : 13:53:22

Macsailor-
I'm sure others will eventually chime in here as well but when I hear the words "a fair amount of water in the bilge" an alarm goes off. Unless you have an inboard with a stern gland of some kind there is no reason that there should be an appreciable amount of water in the bilge especially under the bilge covers ( also known as 'sole plates'). It is easy to convince yourself - which I did at first and the PO definitely had - that a combination of leaking deck fittings, windows, et al can provide an amount of water that requires a constantly 'on' bilge pump. From personal experience and from experiences of others on this site, (assuming you have inspected the large holes like thru-hulls, transponders, etc.) it is more likely that there is a crack of some kind in the keel trunk area. It is often a fracture in the 'bucket' area caused by stopping a sudden drop of the keel, or as in my case simply a lack of glass cloth in the original lay-up in the area directly under the compression post and eventually causing a crack there. After a sail or sitting on a mooring bouy for a week the bilges would be brimming full and I would have to suck out about 5 or more gallons. The crack - which had been bottom-painted-over several times - became obvious when I put the boat on a trailer and the water leaking out from the crack was visible. After repairs and much sailing I've had a bone-dry bilge for over 2 years. As a temporary fix before the repair for using when I was away from the boat for awhile, I had rigged a bilge pump with battery clips and an outlet hose fixed to run into the sink and left that thru-hull open. I now keep it stowed under the setee for emergency use. Someome said once - and now I agree - that for the most part these are suppossed to be 'dry-bilged boats'. If there is no possibility of a crack do some research and you can figure out ways to find and fix major leaks. In this case, dry is better. Good luck.

Edited by - Tim M on 10/31/2012 13:59:08

johnmcb
Deckhand

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USA
17 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2012 : 16:33:00

Tim M, Thanks for the info. I am in the process of making Osprey and "dry bilge" boat. I found that most of the water was coming from the anchor locker where the drain line had broken down. I have replaced that and am waiting to see how much water I now will have to deal with. Next project is the windows. In the mean time I would like to keep her as dry as I can to prevent mold. I will check the SK trunk as best I can. Thanks again

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2012 : 20:49:25

Hint on the windows: CD had 3M 4200 in the kit I received. That is not appropriate for the application, so I bought polysulfide for the frames. I used the 4200 to fill the gap between the outer skin and the liner in the cutouts. Now it can't leak into the bilge. It has to drip in the cabin and I will know about it.

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Tim M
1st Mate

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60 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2012 : 13:46:22

The anchor locker is where I started fixing leaks also. I totally sealed the pan and the lights and enlarged the drain-hole (and of course correctly installed a proper thru-hull) and this helped to dry out the bilge area under the v-berth. Unfortunately on my boat and I think on most of the swing-keel era boats, there are no 'limber holes' that connect any of the bilge areas to allow water to drain to a common area. The water under the bilge covers is probably coming from somewhere other than the forward leaks and probably from somewhere near where it has been collecting. I also replaced the windows with overlayed acrylic ones and as Dave says, bonding the cabin liner to the outer skin around the windows is another good idea. The area under the ladder is another separate bilge area where there was generally a pick-up at the end of the hose from the manual bilge pump in the cockpit - although when I got my boat the end of the hose was still (after 20 some years) just an over-abundant coil thrown up under the fuel locker. Water collecting in this area may be coming from some of the usual sources but from my experience, mainly from 1) the lower pintle, 2)occasional burp of water up the cable tube from engine in reverse (stuff a sponge around the cable), and 3) leaking around the brass scupper liners of the cockpit drains in the transom. Keep working at all the possibilities and eventually you'll have a dry boat and not have to worry about mold.

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johnmcb
Deckhand

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USA
17 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2012 : 14:53:14

Tim M,
Tell me what you did to the anchor locker in more detail. I saw a thread on the forum where a 3/4 in iron pipe was used as an anchor locker drain tube. Is that what you did? How did you "totally seal" the pan and lights. Did you have your boat on the dry to replace the drain?

Macsailor

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Tim M
1st Mate

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60 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2012 : 17:28:15

Use a piece of brass pipe instead of iron and it doesn't have to be that big - I used what worked with the biggest decent drill bit I had because you like the entry hole in the bow to be as clean as possible (less filling with gelcoat that never seems quite the right color). A big issue is the need for some down-slope in the locker floor around the area where the water enters the pipe - so don't push it in too far when you epoxy it in. I also used plenty of Pl5200 (I know, some swear at it and some swear by it) around the inside of the locker 'pan'-to-deck joint and around it from inside the v-berth as well - there's always lots of condensation in there from wet rode, etc.. I also remember I had to mix some fiberglass filler and applied it to some gaping holes around the light fixture boxes and after it curred then sealed them good as well. I did have the boat on the trailer when I did it but it all could be done from a dinghy or a dock. FWIW I also properly installed a 'bow eye' in the forward area of the locker to tie the 'bitter end' to since there had been no way to secure the end of the rode. Also some plastic drainage mats cut to the shape of the locker to keep the rode up off the floor helps keep down condensation and helps it drain better.

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