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Update on boat search

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/25/2012 : 06:48:34

Hello again all, I hope everyone had a wonderful Thanksgiving celebration,

I'm leaning now toward either a Catalina 34 or 36. There is what appears to be a really good condition 1992 C36 in Vermillion, Ohio, but the price is significantly higher that other boats I'd considered; and there is a "better than average" 1986-vintage C34 (not a formal listing) that the same broker as the C36 is working with me on.

This would be my first time buying a "big boat," is it customary to do a sea trial first? Obviously this would have to wait until the start of the season, but is this something I should ask for? I don't know if the existing owners of these boats even plan on keeping them in the water when the season begins, but if they do not and they are still on their cradles, I'm assuming I would have to pay for the boat yard to rig and launch the boats, then subsequently retrieve them? It just seems like a lot of expense to take a test drive. Or would a test drive be unreasonable?

Ben
Beneteau 361
Viking Kitty
Columbus, Ohio

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2012 : 08:26:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ben
This would be my first time buying a "big boat," is it customary to do a sea trial first?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

A sea trial is a normal part of the survey here. I found it to be a useful part of buying my boat. You can't learn everything in a sea trial (since you'll be in a limited set of conditions), but you'll learn a lot on how the boat handles.

We did a sea trial when buying our Pearson 28-2.

All that you can judge the boat on without a sea trial is really much you like the interior layout and what reviewers have said.

There are so many Catalina 34s and 36s in the world that it should be easy to verify that you are paying a fair price. Prices through brokers seem to vary a lot since they are set by the seller, not the broker.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2012 : 08:41:08

Others may have a different experience, but when I purchased my power boat, the contract was contingent upon a satisfactory sea trial. The sea trial was the very last detail, which was scheduled just prior to the "closing". In my case, the boat was located at the brokers marina and there was no fee to lift the boat in or out of the water. Of course, rigging a sailboat is a different matter.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2012 : 09:16:33

I'll just add that a C310 may be in my future. So to find out if I "like" that model, I found one I can charter in Punta Gorda, FL. I can charter the boat for a sunset sail, half-day sail or full day. For a few boat units I can see if that boat may be right and have fun doing it.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2012 : 10:04:22

You should make the deal contingent on a satisfactory sea trial, and contingent on all the boat's systems working properly. The closing should be scheduled in the spring, so tnat, if you have to pay to launch the boat, you will be launching it anyway for the season. When I bought my boat, the owner had already paid for the spring launch, so I didn't have to pay for it. Usually the launch for a sea trial is the buyer's expense, but everything is negotiable.

The surveyor usually doesn't certify the condition of the motor, so you should either hire someone to check the motor (I didn't), or you should just look for any obvious indications of engine problems during the sea trial. The surveyor also usually doesn't check the peripheral systems, such as Air conditioning, refrigeration, stove, electrical, fresh water, water heater, etc., so you should ask the owner to demonstrate that they are all working properly. Check the winches and roller furler to be sure they don't just work, but that they work smoothly, as they should. Be present throughout the survey. Ask the surveyor questions whenever appropriate.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 11/25/2012 10:08:38

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2012 : 10:45:52

You can't count on a sea trial to show you how a boat sails or handles, since the time and conditions will be limited. A well-kept Catalina sails like a Catalina, which is to say "reasonably well," but of course it will feel very different from your 25...

What the trial will do is help you feel confident about the outcome of the survey--that everything works as well as it appears it should. What are the conditions of the sails? You'll see them in full-hoist, trimmed as well as you can. Does the engine start and run smoothly without vibrations that could come from the shaft or prop, and without overheating. Does the shaft log/stuffing box leak more than a drop or two? Does the rudder respond smoothly to the wheel? Do the traveler and roller furler work easily? If there's in-mast or in-boom main furling, you'll be working that... Do the speed, depth, and other instruments perform properly under way?

Good luck in your quest!

Edit: My surveyor (Johnson Marine in Groton, CT) does most of what Steve says his didn't--engine, electrical, plumbing, etc... On my C-25, the engine of course was just a little Honda outboard, but, for example, he did a thermal scan of the block after running it for a half hour or so, to check the cooling passages.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 11/25/2012 10:54:46

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2012 : 16:27:04

Thanks everyone. Your advice helps a lot, I'm going to be talking to the broker tomorrow so will have a better feeling with how to move foreward.

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2012 : 17:46:26

The surveyor that I used appears to be somewhere in between Dave's and Steve's. I wish I had more surveyor's to choose from and could have done more homework on picking the right one. I left the survey feeling like he'd done sort of a B- job...enough to tell my insurance that the boat was worth insuring and to cover basic safety issues, but not enough to necessarily help me identify all work that was necessary. As with Steve's surveyor he didn't really do an in-depth check on the engine or rigging, but he did do a basic check on all systems including the cabin heat, hot water heater, pressurized water, etc. There were some issues in the running rigging (specifically condition of the clutches) that I wish had been caught during the survey, but they weren't.

The sea trial was fairly short, but was long enough for me to get a little feel on how the boat handled. We did enough tacks for me to get an idea of how high it pointed (in light/moderate wind conditions), how well balanced it was, and how sensitive it was to sail trim. I've learned a lot more on those subjects later on as I've owned the boat, but the 20-30 minutes of sailing still confirmed that it sailed well enough to make me happy.

Good luck boat hunting.

Edited by - on

putzmeister
Navigator

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100 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2012 : 18:43:00

Ben, how many crew members will be sailing with you?

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2012 : 20:46:05

I should add that I didn't mean to contradict what Alex said about seeing how the boat handles... My point was that a bigger boat (30-36') is very different from a smaller boat (25'), and unless you sail a lot of the bigger ones, you won't have a feel for how one is better or worse than another. A C&C will outrun a Catalina, and a Cape Dory will be more comfortable in a seaway.

Catalina is in a sweet spot between performance and blue-water comfort, with very solid systems and decent performance at a corresponding price range. Unless you can figure out a way to try all of them, you have to go on various reviews and other opinions, weighted as you see fit. I've known well some owners of Catalinas from 22' to 36', and I'm confident that each of those boats is very competent as a coastal cruiser, and has the potential to beat her ratings in PHRF racing--even if not to beat the "sleds" over the line. This is why friends of mine who cruise all over the northeast have stuck with Catalina while going from 22' to 27' to 30' to 34' (all pre-owned)--they have never been disappointed.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 11/25/2012 20:48:13

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2012 : 13:53:47

I agree finding a good surveyor could be a challenge, but I'm hoping to find a good one in the Sandusky area. When I had my C25 surveyed in Muskegon, Michigan, the guy had to come from Grand Rapids, so I had to pay his time there and back.

Putzmeister, in all likelihood I'll be single-handling a lot of the time; otherwise it'll be my wife with me serving as crew.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2012 : 16:21:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ben
 I agree finding a good surveyor could be a challenge, but I'm hoping to find a good one in the Sandusky area. When I had my C25 surveyed in Muskegon, Michigan, the guy had to come from Grand Rapids, so I had to pay his time there and back.

Putzmeister, in all likelihood I'll be single-handling a lot of the time; otherwise it'll be my wife with me serving as crew.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I had a guy from Cleveland do a survey on a boat in Huron. Lots of years have gone by and I'm blanking on the name. If I remember correctly, it was a big firm with its HQ in Chicago.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2012 : 17:04:42

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 11/27/2012 : 04:59:53

That's a great idea, Steve, I think Duane and I are connected through LinkedIN actually, so should be easy to get in touch with him.

Edited by - on

panhead1948
Captain

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345 Posts

Response Posted - 11/27/2012 : 10:13:45

I think if you are a BOAT US member you can get the names a surveyor from them.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 11/27/2012 : 11:01:01

...or from [url="http://www.marinesurvey.org/us-regions.html"]SAMS[/url]. But a good reference is worthwhile.

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redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 11/28/2012 : 17:06:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by panhead1948
 I think if you are a BOAT US member you can get the names a surveyor from them.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

If you use a boat us surveyor, you'll have an easy time on the insurance.

Sten

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