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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Dropping the mast on a C25

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Tom Parish
Deckhand

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4 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/29/2013 : 14:00:51

Hi All

I'm planning to step the mast on my Catalina Capri 25. The boat is in the water in a relatively calm dock. Reason for dropping the mast is that our Jib (roller furling) halyard is stuck at the top of the mast plus I need to fit a new wind vane and anchor light.

From what I've read this seems achievable, however I don't have or plan to buy any of the equipment that people are referring to as this is just a one off drop for a couple of hours. There will be four of us on the boat/dock so hoping that they'll be enough hands to keep the mast from too much sidewards movement and enough muscle to get it back up.

I'm planning to shackle the main halyard to the bow and use that to raise and lower the mast but not really looked into the logistics of that yet.

So do we think this can be done or is it a bit ambitious for a first timer? Pretty new to all this so any advice would be very much appreciated.

Cheers
Tom

Edited by - on

Ape-X
Admiral

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Response Posted - 04/29/2013 : 14:41:28

we used the main sheet attached to the furler/forestay. The lower rears can stay attached to help. There are tons of discussions on gin poles, cradles etc if you search the site.

I use the crane at the service bay: free and much easier.

Edited by - on

Tom Parish
Deckhand

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Response Posted - 04/29/2013 : 14:49:25

Crane in a service bay sounds ideal!

So you use the main sheet? I can't picture how that works, I was planning to whip the boom off before starting, is that a bad idea?

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Tom Parish
Deckhand

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Response Posted - 04/29/2013 : 15:24:14

Also how is the foot of the mast attached it's some kind of pin running through the bottom. If so is this likely to be seized if the mast has never been lowered?

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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/29/2013 : 15:41:21

If you insist on not using an A frame, Yes Remove the boom. Just loosen the bolt at the bottom of the mast, Don't remove it until the mast is down. You will at the very least need a T-bar at the back of the boat to lay the mast on or it will hit the cabin roof. The main sheet will work without an A frame for only the first 1/3 of the lowering but as the mast and main sheet get closer to parallel with each other it will become useless so this would be where your muscle crew will take over hopefully.

Edited by - islander on 04/29/2013 15:45:15

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/29/2013 : 17:12:08

I don't know the ratio, but many here use either an A-frame or gin pole. I have used both on our tall rig and I believe your mast is the same height. Don't underestimate sway of the mast (port to starboard) when raising and lowering the mast - even more so on the water.

Edited by - OJ on 04/29/2013 17:14:13

Capri-25 Editor
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Response Posted - 04/29/2013 : 17:23:15

Um... I might be Hercules, or the laziest man alive (my father always said that the laziest man will always show you the easiest way to do something).

Take the boom off.
take the rear lowers off.
A-frame out of 2x4s.. tie off fixed at the bow cleats.
use the mainsheet tackle to the top of the a-frame...
create a mast yoke with 2x4s... to catch the mast just above horizontal.
release the forestay... lower with mainsheet tackle.

I lowered my mast myself twice now, raised once. Aiming for twice this week.
I always do this in the slip, the launch ramp is below a bunch of trees, so I cannot raise before I launch.

As far as sway... the mainsheet tackle is 4to1 or 5to1 depending... so you can raise/lower with one hand, and steer with the other... its easy enough that you can do it one handed... and even waves aren't a real big issue.

Edited by - Capri-25 Editor on 04/29/2013 17:31:09

Capri-25 Editor
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Response Posted - 04/29/2013 : 17:32:12

I know it's a lot for a newbie, but YOU CAN do it and safely. Just takes some time to think it through, having extra hands to steer is quite good. Yes 4 guys can muscle it down easy.

Edited by - on

Tom Parish
Deckhand

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Response Posted - 04/29/2013 : 17:47:46

Great stuff, and thanks for the pictures. Now, excuse my ignorance.....

So you're just taking the main sheet off the boom and the traveler and fixing it to the mast and the top of the A frame or am I completely missing something!

Thanks for your patience! Tidy boat by the way, very nice.

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/29/2013 : 21:26:44

This is my thread on this same subject from last year:
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24820&whichpage=1

Tipping it forward using the instructions linked there worked very well. Here are those instructions again:
http://catalina-capri-25s.org/tech/tech25/bsmast.asp

My Catalina 25 is a tall mast. We did the job with 4 people and I think I'd recommend a minimum of 3.

You might also consider climbing the mast. In the last year we've been up the Catalina 25 mast 4 times for various jobs. It is a lot quicker than dropping the mast. My preferred method is to use a ATN Mast Climber, which allows the person going up the mast to use their leg muscles to get up there. A second person on the ground manages a safety line (using a halyard attached to the mast climber), just in case something goes wrong.

Edited by - on

Capri-25 Editor
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 04/30/2013 : 03:33:03

Tom, if I think of it today (I am supposed to launch today)... I'll take better pictures.
I use the spinnaker ring for the mainsheet tackle (fixed boom end)... and the top of the A-frame for the block end (adjustment). This allows me to stand between the mast and the A-frame on the starboard side, with my right hand on the mainsheet, and my left hand under the mast. So as I "sheet in" with my right, I steer with my left. I sheet quickly through the arch, because like others say the whole kaboodle likes to swing. It's really not horrible. Again the TRICK... is to make sure the mast is well above level to start... then it's super easy (in fact if you can get the mast there to start, 2 guys can easily lift the mast. The KEY to that is to make sure the Mast support is well AFT of the stern. That's tough, but my one picture helps there... then the mast will balance on the tabernacle (bottom) and just above the spreaders behind the stern.

Again, pictures are worth a thousand words. I actually want to take a LOT of pictures today, because I also want shots of my strap launch (lets hope no one gets injured in my process). If my calculations are correct (and they may not be), I should have the launch ramp to myself today.

Edited by - on

Capri-25 Editor
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 04/30/2013 : 04:25:24

I should mention that dropping the mast is easy, it's catching it that's hard! opposite of raising, and you steer towards the mast support yoke.

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/30/2013 : 17:12:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Capri-25 Editor
 I should mention that dropping the mast is easy, it's catching it that's hard! opposite of raising, and you steer towards the mast support yoke.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Indeed, we usually refer to the process as "lowering the mast."

Good luck!

Edited by - on

Capri-25 Editor
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Response Posted - 05/01/2013 : 03:34:57

I thought I'd share this with everyone, sorry this is picture intensive...
start

Ok, it's all setup to raise...

Oh, hint, use low stretch line for the forward line, and I'd recommend tying it over the top not below like this, more on that later.

Once their is weight on it, it doesn't slip, so the lines are merely a precaution:

Ok, ANYONE doubt if this works?

Listen, I hit my goal with this yesterday. I self-launched using the strap launch method. I then self-raised this mast. That was my goal. I am not crazy, there were 2 guys right there to help if anything went wrong, but this was my goal. I have the same goal with haul-out.

I hope this helps.

Finally I'd like to say there is always room for improvement. I had my mainsheet purchase at 3:1, I had to up it to 4:1, and it took all my right arm strength to get this thing up. I think I had too much lean on the A-frame. I also don't like how I tied the forward line. It bent the eye-bolt at the top from the force (if I tied over the top this would not have happened). Also putting the A-frame further forward would have made it easier to keep tension on it to put the forestay pin in. However once it was up, I tied the jib halyard to the pulpit, and cranked on it as well, adjusted things a bit, and cranked on both, to get the forestay in (oh and make sure your backstay is 100% off).

All in all I was VERY happy with this system.

Oh I arrived at the club at 10:30am. I was moving slow, boat was in the water at noon. Mast was up at 1500. I was sailing at 1700. You know several celebratory adult beverages to quench the thirst in between. I was the first boat in the water this year. I even beat the Dockmaster's son with his J/22 (who was quite upset I beat him in)..

Edited by - Capri-25 Editor on 05/01/2013 03:55:01

GaryB
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Response Posted - 05/01/2013 : 09:51:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Capri-25 Editor

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Nice job! You;ve worked hard the past few months. Time to enjoy the fruit of your efforts!

Sorry the kids got a hold of a magic marker and ruined your new main!

Edited by - GaryB on 05/01/2013 09:54:13

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 05/01/2013 : 10:00:07

John, thanks for making the time and effort to take and post the above pix. Lovely boat, lovely part of PA.

I haven't read all of the above, but what what is the reasoning behind attaching the A-frame so low on the mast . . . as opposed to, say, bringing a halyard down from the top?

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TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 05/01/2013 : 10:45:31

Nice job!

Looks like Ironwood Point. Nice place! I considered putting my boat there before I decided to keep her closer to home.

I use a gin pole instead of A-frame. Like you, it's a one-man job, but I keep bystanders handy to step in if something goes wrong (nothing has yet).

I use TWO lines to pull the mast up - the halyard to the masthead, and a second line harnessed beneath the spreaders. That attachment is so critical that I want redundancy. I cringed when you mentioned your padeye getting bent out of shape from the stress. Sounds like you narrowly averted disaster. Next time you might consider two lines to distribute the load. It won't reduce the stress on your block/tackle (unless use one block/tackle for each line), but it may spread out the stresses on the mast itself.

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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 05/01/2013 : 11:26:36

If you are alone you must use devices. If you have friends it is trivial to do by hand. As with much of life, sometimes a little actual physical labor is better than "working smart".

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Capri-25 Editor
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 05/01/2013 : 13:17:52

I attach at the spin ring, because it's known to be strong... better would be partway up the mast, say at the spreaders... the top of the mast would work, but the A-Frame would need to be forward further, or it'd get harder to lift as the mast went up, I'd rather it got easier!

There is any number of reasons I can think of to lower the mast, and make modifications... having others there makes it easier. Being able to do it when you want to, is however, better.

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Sloop Smitten
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Response Posted - 05/01/2013 : 13:50:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">If you are alone you must use devices. If you have friends it is trivial to do by hand. As with much of life, sometimes a little actual physical labor is better than "working smart".<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Having lowered my mast by hand and with devices I would rather have myself and two people doing it by hand then utilizing the A-frame and crutch. The same with raising it. Too many details involved to use the A-frame if you have enough people to help. A person can react to changes and adjust himself accordingly to need. The A-frame would be my distant second choice.

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OJ
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Response Posted - 05/01/2013 : 14:54:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Sloop Smitten
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">If you are alone you must use devices. If you have friends it is trivial to do by hand. As with much of life, sometimes a little actual physical labor is better than "working smart".<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Having lowered my mast by hand and with devices I would rather have myself and two people doing it by hand then utilizing the A-frame and crutch. The same with raising it. Too many details involved to use the A-frame if you have enough people to help. A person can react to changes and adjust himself accordingly to need. The A-frame would be my distant second choice.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Yeah, we used to raise and lower our C25 std rig by hand - three people. The current tall rig, however, is another story . . .

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keeldad
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 05/03/2013 : 11:24:50

This month's Good Old Boat magazine has an interesting article about a mast raising system. It has an additional bracket to prevent the mast from swaying while it is being raised but it needs a spinnaker car track on the forward part of the mast to work.

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Sam001
Vice Commodore

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USA
441 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2013 : 18:14:06

the good news is now you have done it. easy from now on...
Once done you have to smile and say ---well it was not that hard.

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michael.j.wenger
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 07/09/2013 : 07:07:12

We lowered the mast on my C25 SK for the first time yesterday using an A-frame system engineered by the previous owner (uses a remote-controlled electric winch mounted on the nose of the trailer). All was going well until the mast was about 30 degrees above horizontal. Then (as best I can tell) the base of the mast twisted in the tabernacle, about 10-15 degrees. The tabernacle was flared out at the top, and I think this allowed the twist. The flare is now a bit more pronoucned, and so I'm wondering how to best fix this before we raise the mast again. Some questions:

- is this flare in the tabernacle responsible for the twist we had?
- should I try to straighten the tabernacle, and if so, how?

Many thanks in advance,

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
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Response Posted - 07/09/2013 : 09:27:26

Tom - all of your masthead tasks could easily be done while hoisted to the masthead on a bosun's chair. I'm sure that someone in the marina has one that you can borrow. Dropping a TR C25 mast is a major pain and requires either much construction of A-frames etc.
I've had mast wiring replaced, halyard sheaves replaced, mast head light replaced and several halyard shackles recovered that meandered to the masthead...,and also replaced &/or adjusted the Windex, all on different occasions. It is so much easier and quicker.

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