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bbarstow
Deckhand

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USA
16 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/10/2013 : 07:09:22

My Catalina 25: The bottom rudder pin is not secured - it is in the hole, but it is moving (the corresponding hole appears to be larger than the pin). The result is a very annoying rattle when the boat is at rest. The boat is in the water, but I can have access to the pin with a dink. I would appreciate any ideas, and especially info on how that pin is secured.

Thanks.

Bruce
C25 1979 SR SK #1223 'Fluid Drive'

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2013 : 07:42:27

It's common for the holes in the gudgeons to widen from wear. Some aftermarket gudgeons are made to have nylon bushings in the holes--maybe you're missing a bushing. You might be able to find something at a hardware store, or Catalina Direct has the [url="http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=83"]upgraded gudgeons and bushings[/url].

Oh--and welcome!

Edited by - on

Jefffriday
Navigator

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USA
198 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2013 : 07:57:43

Get the upgraded Gudgeons and pintles, I had failures on both with the original, not pretty...

Edited by - on

WesAllen
Navigator

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USA
222 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2013 : 08:07:57

I put in the upgrade kit and it was a lot smoother.

Edited by - on

bbarstow
Deckhand

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USA
16 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2013 : 08:35:52

Stinkpotter, JeffFriday; WesAllen, Thank you all for the very quick response, and for the very consistent answers. Looks like nylon bushings (or a new fitting) are the answer. I ordered bushings from the Catalina link to start. Maybe I'll need to retro-fit a new fitting next year. Thanks again!

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2013 : 09:19:21

You can tell if you have the the upgraded gussets that utilize the nylon bushings by the two gussets between the horizontal and vertical sections which were not there on the originals.

Edited by - on

trptelf
Navigator

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USA
113 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2013 : 09:44:13

I have the same issue. It looked to me like our lower gudgeon was the new type because it had the supports, though our top gudgeon is the older style. I ordered Catalina Direct's bushing, and it did not fit the lower gudgeon. So even though it has the supports and looks like the new style, it must not be. I'm having a hard time finding a bushing that will fit at a hardware store. Planning to replace both gudgeons next year.

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2013 : 10:20:53

The upgraded gudgeons are pretty inexpensive and are a nice upgrade.

Our pintle also rattled in there. I tried to make a delrin bushing for it on my lathe, but the actual amount of play was small (but very annoying) and making a durable bushing was impossible.

You should also check them for failure, both of the originals on my old boat had fatigue cracks.

Replacing the upper requires cutting an access hole into the transom. There are many threads covering this on the forum.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2013 : 14:33:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bbarstow
 ...I ordered bushings from the Catalina link...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Just so there's no confusion, and in case this is new to you, Catalina Direct is a separate company from Catalina Yachts. They deal in replacements and upgrades for various Catalina models, and are very knowledgeable about our boats. Their C-25 Onwer's Handbook is worth the $10, even though it's primarily their catalog for the boat (with free annual updates). It has some useful information on issues and upgrades. They even sell an access plate and rent a hole saw for installing it so you can replace the upper gudgeon.

Also, just in case you find this forum useful, I'll suggest you give us some information about your boat, in the "signature" in your profile. That way, whenever you post, we can see at least the year, rig (SR/TR), and keel (FK/SK/WK), which can help us answer many kinds of questions.

And if you really find it useful, join up! The information (and camaraderie) is priceless! (That from an alum that never could quite break away.)

Edited by - on

bbarstow
Deckhand

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USA
16 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2013 : 17:44:42

Thanks once more to all. Your replies have been most helpful. I will eyeball (or feel) for the gussets on the lower gudgeon. I also plan to replace the whole thing next year ($26 at Catalina Direct is a good deal). The upper seems to be OK, so no hole sawing should be required. I ordered a couple of bushings. We'll see about the fit. I will update my profile as Stinkpotter has advised. Thanks again for your responses.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2013 : 06:47:27

I'm having a hard time finding a bushing that will fit at a hardware store. Planning to replace both gudgeons next year.
Go to an Appliance parts store, As long as your pintles are 1/2" these bushings will fit. You will have to drill/enlarge the gudgeon hole for the bushing to fit but as you can see in the photo there will still be plenty of meat left on the gudgeon. These bushings are for the rear drum of a GE dryer so they will last a long time on a rudder. You can also just order 2 of them here.http://www.repairclinic.com/PartDetail/Drum-Bearing/WE3X75/3410

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2013 : 15:44:21

Drill it out, if it goes badly then get new ones.

Edited by - on

Frank Law
Navigator

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USA
159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2013 : 19:13:55

Per Islanders picture notice the new bushing is too long and covers half the retainer pin hole.... I have the same problem and have been using a smaller diameter retainer pin ... I don't know whether The bushing can be shortened....FWIW

Frank Law
"ABOUT TIME"
1983 # 3519
SWK , SR
currently for sale

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2013 : 20:57:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Frank Law
 Per Islanders picture notice the new bushing is too long and covers half the retainer pin hole.... I have the same problem and have been using a smaller diameter retainer pin ... I don't know whether The bushing can be shortened....FWIW

Frank Law
"ABOUT TIME"
1983 # 3519
SWK , SR
currently for sale
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Depending on what it's made of, a few seconds on a bench grinder should shorten it just fine.

What IS it made of?

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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2013 : 13:29:04

Oh come on,Really? Its plastic(Delrin), Take you 2 seconds to shorten it.

Edited by - islander on 05/13/2013 13:35:02

Merrick
Navigator

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USA
192 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2013 : 07:51:26

fwiw I replaced my gudgeons (CD's)for the second time in 4 years. the first replacement set corroded badly, apparently at the welds. Don't know they would have failed but the rust stains down the stern were bad enough. This pair I've painted to see if it helps at all. Boat stays in salt water year round.

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2013 : 08:14:56

That is disappointing. Did you ask Catalina Direct about this?

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2013 : 14:34:22

Steve, I replaced mine 2yrs ago and the boat is also at a dock in salt water but I don't have any rust. I think you might have gotten a pair that had bad welds. If stainless isn't welded just right the weld will rust. Something to do with the heat changing the steel...

Edited by - on

jonfrey@ymail.com
Deckhand

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USA
7 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2013 : 14:37:44

What do the bolts on the bottom gudgeon screw into? Are they captured in the transom?

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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2013 : 14:56:56

They screw into a bronze backing plate. Mine also had nuts, I assume because the bronze backing plate isn't very thick. Soft metal and not many threads. Your boat may or may not have the nuts from what I have read on this forum from others who have replaced the gudgeon.

Edited by - on

Merrick
Navigator

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USA
192 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2013 : 16:56:00

Re the corroded gudgeons, I didn't demand or even request CD do something about it, but I mentioned it to Kent (at CD) and he suggested treating the new ones with PRIZM for protection. Kind of doubt a big help there. Suspect as mentioned above, I got a bad set.
As far as what they bolt to, mine just had large washers. I added a white board (whatever that stuff is ) as a backing.

Edited by - on

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