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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Trailer Brakes

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/30/2003 : 10:16:02

I was browsing the Champion Trailers site the other night. (it has quite a bit of useful info by the way... championtrailers.com)

In a one section, they said on most tandem axle trailers with a single pair of brakes, the brakes should go on the REAR axle.

While seemingly counter-intuitive, the article stated that most dual-spring axle designs will transfer weight to the rear axle as the tongue of the trailer dips.

Looking at my 1978 Trail-rite... I noticed the brakes are (of course)on the front axle.

Right now, I'm pondering converting to stainless discs... the cost of the complete upgrade kit (surge unit, tubing, discs etc.. seems pretty reasonable.

So the questions of the day are... (for those of you without trailers buried in snow).

1) Which axle has the brakes on your trailer? (if only one axle)
2) How many brakes do you have (1 or 2 axles)
3) Have any of you done the conversion? Happy with it?

TIA for all comments...

CB

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

Doug C.
Navigator

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USA
146 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2003 : 12:23:38

My 1990 Trailrite has the brakes on the front axel as well. I don't see anything in the spring design that would make me believe the weight transfers to the rear axel when the tongue dips. In fact if you lower the tongue the weight is clearly greater on the front axel.
I will watch this thread to gather insight.

I have not made the disc conversion but am considering it.

Also considering a conversion to electric if suitable water tolerant components could be found. I like the thought of having trailer brakes when backing down steep ramps, at least to waters edge when they would need to be unplugged.

Doug Cavin
1990 C25 TR/WK #6010
"Valkyrie"

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2003 : 13:10:11

ClamBeach<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>1.) Which axle has the brakes on your trailer (if only one axle)?
... and ...
"I don't see anything in the spring design that would make me believe the weight transfers to the rear ..." <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>Like Champion Trailers said, the rear. Yes, it's counter intuitive. Here's how I think it works: Under hard braking, the front of the tow vehicle dives, and the rear of the tow vehicle rises, which tends to lift the trailer tongue, rocking the trailer back more onto its rear axle. But much more importantly, as the trailer brakes engage, the backing plates/calipers attempt to rotate the trailer (braking) axle forward, to follow the drums/disks. This affects the angle of the equalizer plate, which is that common attachment point between the front and rear trailer leaf springs. If the front axle is braking, the movement of the equalizer tends to lift front spring, and push down on the rear spring, which reduces the weight on the braking axle. If the rear axle is doing the braking, the rocking equalizer still tends to push down on the rear spring, which increases the weight on the braking axle. I think.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>2.) How many brakes do you have (1 or 2 axles)<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>Stainless steel disks on all four trailer wheels.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>3.) Have any of you done the conversion? Happy with it?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>Yes and yes. I tow with a very small truck. When I hit the brakes, the whole rig goes straight, and that boat stops! As a test once, I stood on the brakes so hard that the truck's front tires were skidding (while going slow close to home). The feeling in the cab was about like having several hundred pounds of construction materials in the truck bed. Inside the boat, everything that wasn't tied down went crashing forward like the boat had been picked up by its transom.

By the way, when I tie the boat down on the trailer, I run a 3/8" low stretch line from the bow cleats, back around the rear trailer cross member, and up to the primary winches. This helps keep the boat from moving forward when the trailer brakes engage. Don't bet on the typical trailer winch pedestal alone to hold back almost 3 tons of boat, especially if it's on rollers.

-- Leon Sisson
<center></center>

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2003 : 20:56:49

Thanks for the info Leon... it pretty much confirms what the Champion site had to say.

I think after I get the boat spashed (in a month or so), I'll be going through the trailer... and likely upgrade the drum brakes to stainless discs.

I'm not a fan of mixing conventional brakes and salt water. (have done this in the past)

I have a big 4x4 Powerstroke diesel that weighs 7,500 lbs. so I think I will be ok with brakes on one trailer axle.

My big reason for upgrading to the C25 from the Venture was to be able to go on multi-week cruises (San Juans, Sacramento Delta, Catalina Island etc.) in some semblance of comfort.

That's going to involve some serious trailering.

Doug... Somebody posted awhile back about a kit that is an electric over hydraulic system. An electromagnet on the tongue pushes a master cylinder in response to input from a conventional electric brake controller. That sounds exactly like the setup you're after and should be an easy retrofit.

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2003 : 00:52:05

My New trailer has dual torsion bar 6,000 lb axles with stainless steel disc brakes on all 4 Load range D tires. I just pulled it through the mountains between Asheville, and Knoxville. Total Trailer Capacity is 8700 lbs. I pull with a 1999 Chevy Silverado 4 x 4

Works Good

Tracks better than my C22 on Trail Rite trailer.

Frank Gloss
89WK/TR

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2984 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2003 : 09:28:30

Frank, mine tracks better than the C22 as well. Course it was a single axle trailer.

As to which axle... if Champion says it, then that throws a lot of weight <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> as they are very knowledgeble about trailers.

And to the argument of brakes on one or both... I've never had the brakes lock up on the trailer. I could see if all for did, where the trailer would slide and possible jack knife. I guess its a trade off, more general braking protection compared to the possible once in a life time panic stop. I would think the general protection would be better.

The c250 water ballast does quite well with brakes on one axle...and they are on the front.

I am a believer in synthetic (won't attract moisture) brake fluid for boat trailers. I had to redo both wheel cylinders and replace the actuator when my trailer was only three years old. The cylinders were contaminated with rust which ate up the cups and caused them to leak and stick.

I now have 4 season on the rebuilt system and it shows no sign of any problems. The fluid in the actuator cylinder resevoir remains clear looking so no rust is present.

To change requires purging all regular brake fluid so involves completely redoing the whole system and blowing brake lines.

The fluid is expensive, was $8 bucks for a pint

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
R&R N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - on

tmhansen
Captain

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USA
397 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2003 : 04:02:12

Arlyn thanks for the tip regarding the synthetic brake fluid. I have to replace the brake lines on my trailer so I can take the oportunity then to change it out. My trailer will be dunked in salt water so I need every bit of help I can get to make it last as long as I can.

Todd Hansen
San Luis Obispo, CA

Edited by - on

pwhallon
Admiral

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USA
694 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2003 : 20:18:36

YEA, YEA, YEA,

But what is the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow.<img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

WOW!

PW

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2003 : 22:42:08

Eh? Catalina 25? Swallow ? Flying Speed? Monty Python?
Those who know will understand.

The Inquisitor at the Chasm of Eternal Peril asked...
'What is the average flying speed of a swallow?'

King Arthur... 'African or European?'

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2003 : 03:10:29

Sounds like another Spanish inquisition to me.<img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>

Matt/Brigitte Loeffler
E.C. Rider
Cat 25 86'
FK/SR _/)

Edited by - on

Doug C.
Navigator

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USA
146 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2003 : 11:41:18

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition..........<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Doug Cavin
1990 C25 TR/WK #6010
"Valkyrie"

Edited by - on

Mark Maxwell
Captain

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USA
329 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2003 : 11:51:16

..ahh, would that be with or without a tail wind?

<img src="http://www.chaplin-nest.com/unkarock/usflagwav.gif" border=0>
Mark-
'Impulse'
C25 #533 DINN/FIN ~_/)~
Bakersfield, CA.

Edited by - on

BCain
Navigator

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USA
103 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2003 : 12:33:57

My trailer has drum brakes on all four wheels. I replaced the RR brake because it was leaking and promptly blew all of the the brakes out. Do I need brakes on all four wheels? Remember, I live in Fl. where the land is purty much flat.

Bruce, WindShadow, Central FL. Lakes

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2003 : 12:56:03

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Do I need brakes on all four wheels? Remember, I live in Fl. where the land is purty much flat.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

You might ask your state police if they're required . . . I noticed a big difference in braking after I had brakes added to the second axle . . . thumbs up on the synthetic fluid.

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