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Using a climbing harness to go halfway up?

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TakeFive
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Initially Posted - 05/10/2013 : 20:09:10

My deck light fell out of the socket today. It's now fish food.

I had taken the bulb out to do a polarity check just before raising the mast, and I guess I didn't properly engage the pins when I put the bulb back in.

I would like to replace the bulb before the end of the season, and I don't want to drop the mast. I also don't want to spend the money on a bosun chair because I will NEVER go to the top of the mast. (Don't try to talk me into it.) The only guy I know who has one has an unsafe one that I wouldn't trust 3 feet up, so I won't borrow it from him.

Since I only need to go about 7' up, and it will be VERY quick, I was wondering if I should buy/borrow a climbing harness instead. It seems that they are safe, just not something you'd want to hang in for more than a few minutes. I have many more friends who are climbers than sailors, so there's a good chance I could borrow one. If not, I've seen them available for purchase for around $30.

I also have my recently purchased Sospenders sailing harness, which might be used in addition to a climbing harness to help ensure I stay upright. I doubt the sailing harness would provide a good way of lifting me vertically, though.

Any suggestions?

Also, my 1998 C250 has the Aqua Signal Series 25 Combo Deck/Steaming light. The deck light part has a mini-bayonet mount with parabolic reflector. Have any of you found an LED light that is compatible? I wouldn't mind trying LED for the deck light.

Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
PO of Take Five, 1998 Catalina 250WK #348 (relocated to Baltimore's Inner Harbor)
New owner of 2001 Catalina 34MkII #1535 Breakin' Away (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

Edited by - TakeFive on 05/10/2013 20:54:06

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 05/10/2013 : 20:18:42

I used to climb when I was much younger, there's no reason a climbing harness wouldn't work. However, I never owned one, nor did any of my climbing partners, we used what was called a "swami belt" that you tied around your waist & butt. It takes about 30' of webbing if I remember correctly and about 5 minutes to tie up. Since you're only going to be up and down in a matter of minutes, I don't see why this wouldn't work. I'd incorporate your harness, use your main & jib halyards (and two people to man them) and you should be fine.

Another option would be a well tied off ladder, although I think that'd get dicey. Or maybe one of your dock mates has a Mast Climber by ATN?

Also, let us know if you find an LED replacement for your light.

Edited by - delliottg on 05/10/2013 20:22:11

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 05/10/2013 : 20:22:32

What about a ladder, with the top tied around the mast and somebody holding the bottom?

Edited by - on

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 05/10/2013 : 20:53:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 What about a ladder, with the top tied around the mast and somebody holding the bottom?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Don't think I'd trust a ladder. First there's the chicken/egg problem of getting up high enough to tie it off. Second, it seems that USCG has not put out the "no wake" buoys in our harbor yet (sequestration delay?), and there are a bunch of clowns who pretend that it's not a no wake zone. If one of those wakes hits me while I'm up on the ladder, it will be bad news. At least if I'm hanging I can wrap my legs around the mast.

Edited by - TakeFive on 05/10/2013 20:56:46

awetmore
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Response Posted - 05/10/2013 : 20:59:15

A climbing harness is fine. The dangerous part is letting your legs go limp and fall asleep. You can add simple foot straps to avoid that.

The new owner of Lutra (my old Catalina 25) went up the mast 2 or 3 times with his climbing harness before I bought the ATN Mast Climber. I prefer the Mast Climber, but the climbing harness was okay.

Edited by - on

delliottg
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Response Posted - 05/10/2013 : 21:39:23

Although I always used a swami belt with a loop of webbing formed into a figure 8 as a seat connected with a couple of carabiners, some of the guys I knew used Swiss Seats, which might be more appropriate for what you're wanting to do. Here's a Youtube video showing you how to tie one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssmYruwGTzM

Edited by - on

islander
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Response Posted - 05/11/2013 : 07:26:02

That Swiss seat looks like it will having you talking at a much higher pitch.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 05/11/2013 : 07:55:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by TakeFive
 Don't think I'd trust a ladder. First there's the chicken/egg problem of getting up high enough to tie it off...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Nah--the egg comes first: Tie the line and then slide the ladder up the mast (assuming it doesn't need to reach above the spreaders). I was just thinking you didn't need that much height, but boat wakes could be an issue... I'm not into climbing gear and/or going up the mast. (Watching the crew on a tall ship makes me queasy!

)

Edited by - on

GaryB
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Response Posted - 05/11/2013 : 08:42:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by TakeFive
 Don't think I'd trust a ladder. First there's the chicken/egg problem of getting up high enough to tie it off...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Nah--the egg comes first: Tie the line and then slide the ladder up the mast (assuming it doesn't need to reach above the spreaders). I was just thinking you didn't need that much height, but boat wakes could be an issue... I'm not into climbing gear and/or going up the mast. (Watching the crew on a tall ship makes me queasy!

)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I used a ladder last year to try and get to my deck light. My deck light is above the spreaders. Tied the ladder off nice and tight. I made it as high as the spreaders but the ladder would still slide side to side too much and I was afraid to let go of the stays for fear of the ladder sliding off to one side.

Tried the ladder as a stair ladder (one side shorter than the other) and as a straight ladder. Neither way gave me the warm fuzzies.

If your deck light is at or below the spreaders I'd go for it with a ladder. If above, use another method to get to the light including dropping the mast.

Here's a picture of the ladder I used -- >> [url="http://www.lowes.com/pd_78463-287-MT-22_0__?productId=1101083&Ntt=ladders&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Dladders&facetInfo="]Ladder[/url]

Edited by - on

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 05/11/2013 : 08:58:46

The light is 3-4' below the spreaders, so it's only 10-11' up from the deck. So a ladder might be a viable alternative, if I use a halyard/harness as safety backup.

My concern is exactly what you described - how do you keep the ladder from sliding side to side? It doesn't take much of a wake, breeze, or even a spotter shifting his weight to throw the ladder off to the side. Maybe I could tie it off sideways to the shrouds?

I hope that anyone who is suggesting a ladder has actually done it! I don't want to be a guinea pig for someone else's hypothetical suggestion.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 05/11/2013 : 09:09:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by TakeFive
 ...I hope that anyone who is suggesting a ladder has actually done it! I don't want to be a guinea pig for someone else's hypothetical suggestion.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">OK, disregard--I don't want to be responsible. I've seen it, but not done it. The ladder I saw used appeared to be part of an extension ladder, so the tops of the side rails extended above the top step, which presumably would prevent it from sliding off the mast. The line I suggested would just add another measure of safety... but I withdraw the recommendation.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/11/2013 09:10:03

Frank Law
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Response Posted - 05/11/2013 : 10:22:48

I used a ladder about 4 years ago .. Tie the bottom legs to stanchions and the top around the mast .. i was changing the steaming light .. I was 71 then and would probably do it again..

Frank Law
" ABOUT TIME "
1983 #3519
SWK , SR

NOW SELLING my boat.

Edited by - on

OJ
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Response Posted - 05/11/2013 : 13:37:03

If not an extension ladder (with someone standing at the base,) then a bosun chair. After research we went with a Harken.

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Voyager
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Response Posted - 05/11/2013 : 14:40:23

I used a ladder to go half way up to replace the steaming light. I think I'm going to have to go up again to attach the bird poop countermeasures: a piece of monofilament line above the spreaders.
I'm not worried about it, but for legal reasons would not recommend it to others…

Edited by - Voyager on 05/11/2013 14:41:52

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 05/11/2013 : 16:39:33

I am still debating how I will do this, but hearing from some people who actually did it on a ladder makes me a little more confident. My ladder is a folding Werner ladder, similar to GaryB's, but an earlier model:

<center>

</center>

Fortunately it has a wide stabilizer bar that should help things. I think I will fold it in half (8 ft long), lash the top rung to the mast and slide it up until the ladder is flush with the front of the mast, then secure a lower rung the stanchion bases on both sides using the ratchet straps that I use as "baby stays" when I drop the mast. That should give it enough stability that the ladder won't move.

I think I'll also don my harness and/or a swami belt and attach the jib halyard as a safety backup. I once broke my arm falling off the Trophy boat while it was on the trailer, so I recognize the importance of redundancy when it comes to safety.

I probably only need to go up 5 rungs on the ladder, so this should be secure enough for such a short climb.

As for LED bulbs, this is the only possibility that I have found:

<center>[url="http://www.amazon.com/LEDwholesalers-Mini-Bayonet-White-1436WH/dp/B0045XJ4A0/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1368232685&sr=8-7&keywords=12v+led+bulb+mini+bayonet"]

[/url]</center>

...but I am not sure whether it would be too bulk to fit back to the (slightly recessed) socket. Also not sure whether it would be too exposed to moisture, since the circuitry does not appear to be encapsulated.

Edited by - on

Voyager
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Response Posted - 05/11/2013 : 19:46:20

Rick
While the bulb may fit within the fixture, its illumination pattern is largely cylindrical, with a beam also emanating from the top end. By contrast, a conventional incandescent bulb provides a more or less spherical pattern.
In a fixture with a parabolic reflector, the LED's pattern will display a very different light distribution.
If the bulb mounts horizontally like mine, your LED will provide a forward-projecting beam, and if the receptacle lines up right, a set of port and starboard facing beams.
Other bayonet base LED bulbs are available with only a forward-facing beam. I bought a Semi-truck type white LED backup light at the local Pilot truck stop in that configuration for about $10. Can't say whether it is rated for 2nm range or acceptable by the USCG.
Your bulb is worth a try …

Edited by - Voyager on 05/11/2013 19:48:10

Voyager
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Response Posted - 05/11/2013 : 19:50:24

For moisture protection, you could try hitting it with a spray-paint of clear lacquer or polyurethane.

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 05/11/2013 : 20:01:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 Rick
While the bulb may fit within the fixture, its illumination pattern is largely cylindrical, with a beam also emanating from the top end. By contrast, a conventional incandescent bulb provides a more or less spherical pattern.
In a fixture with a parabolic reflector, the LED's pattern will display a very different light distribution.
If the bulb mounts horizontally like mine, your LED will provide a forward-projecting beam, and if the receptacle lines up right, a set of port and starboard facing beams.
Other bayonet base LED bulbs are available with only a forward-facing beam. I bought a Semi-truck type white LED backup light at the local Pilot truck stop in that configuration for about $10. Can't say whether it is rated for 2nm range or acceptable by the USCG.
Your bulb is worth a try …
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Just to make sure I was clear, this is a deck light that shines directly down, not a nav light that needs to be USCG certified.

I'm not completely sure that the reflector is truly parabolic, but it seems to approximate that shape. And as you know, an incandescent filament placed at the focus of a parabola generates a spotlight focus with the light coming out parallel. The deck light is supposed to be more of a flood pattern that spreads out over the foredeck.

The bulb pictured is smaller than it looks, and may leave adequate space for the reflector to shine the light down onto the foredeck, so it may be worth a try. My biggest concern is whether it will fit down into the socket, which is somewhat recessed above the reflector bowl.

Before I order this online I am going to see what LED alternatives the West Marine has. When I purchased this halogen bulb two years ago it came from Catalina Direct, and was just an Ancor bulb. I believe WM has the exact same Ancor bulb, and Ancor's website shows that they ahve a selection of LED bulb replacements. I am much more comfortable buying stuff like this from a brick-and-mortar store where I can get my hands on the item to inspect before purchase.

Edited by - TakeFive on 05/11/2013 20:02:57

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 05/11/2013 : 20:05:09

Damn... My engine mechanic has a spray for electrical stuff that isn't oil-based, so doesn't collect dirt and residue forever or create plastic films, and I don't remember what it is. But there are many on the market. I wouldn't suggest polyurethane.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/11/2013 20:08:52

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 05/12/2013 : 09:20:56

If I try that particular LED, I'll probably leave it as-is. Since I'm in a freshwater environment, the downside of fiddling with it is much greater than the potential upside.

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GaryB
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Response Posted - 05/12/2013 : 09:51:39

When I used my ladder in stair mode (one side shorter than the other) it was stable, I just couldn't reach the light. The legs on the long side were sitting on the fore-deck while the short side legs were sitting on the cabin top.

As others have said, I'm not recommending you use a ladder at all. I'm just relating my experiences. If you decide to use a ladder you do so at your own risk. The consequences could be severe.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 05/12/2013 : 13:36:47

I think I am going to take a chance and buy this spreader bracket, then bolt it to the top rung of my ladder. It if fits, it will completely stabilize the top of the ladder from side-to-side motion and make it very safe:

<center>[url="http://www.marinepartdepot.com/ststspmabr.html"]

[/url]</center>

The reason I'm taking a chance is that the drawing does not show the exact inner width of the spreader opening. Every other dimension is perfect. The outer dimension "C" is 1.5", and my ladder's rungs are 1 3/16" square. So there's a chance it will fit. For $8 I am going to give it a shot.

If any of you have already purchased this from Marine Part Depot, please let me know and, if possible, measure it for me.

Thanks!

Edited by - TakeFive on 05/12/2013 13:37:56

GaryB
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Response Posted - 05/12/2013 : 16:21:13

You still need to worry about the ladder twisting.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 05/12/2013 : 18:38:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 You still need to worry about the ladder twisting.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Duly noted.

FYI, I do not plan to mess with any sort of "stair mode." That has always struck me a an extremely unstable configuration for that ladder.

What do you guys suggest to prevent twisting? For those of you who successfully used a ladder, were there any key tricks that you learned?

What about my plan to use ratchet straps to secure the ladder to the baby stay bails at the base of the stanchions? Does that seem like it would be sufficient to prevent twisting?

Edited by - on

OJ
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Response Posted - 05/12/2013 : 18:58:28

We we used an 8' step ladder, folded and leaned it against the front of the mast. My son went up the ladder, keeping one arm wrapped around the mast at all times. I was the spotter, keeping one foot on the deck and the other on the first rung (or step) at all times.

You must use a spotter.

With your ladder folded, I don't see it twisting.

For extra security, tie a line around the mast and through the top rung.

Need two free hands? Use a bosun chair.

Edited by - OJ on 05/12/2013 19:00:18

GaryB
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Response Posted - 05/12/2013 : 20:54:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by TakeFive
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 You still need to worry about the ladder twisting.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Duly noted.

FYI, I do not plan to mess with any sort of "stair mode." That has always struck me a an extremely unstable configuration for that ladder.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Actually it is a very stable mode for my Werner ladder. Some other brands may not be as stable.

Here's a sure fire method -- >> [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ibp1oCQdY-M"]Fixing Mast Lights[/url]

Edited by - GaryB on 05/14/2013 18:05:14

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